Rob Audio Episode
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Edward: [00:00:00] [00:00:01] Hi,

I'm [00:00:02] Edward Cohen. This is [00:00:03] Tangent, a [00:00:04] Commercial Observer podcast. [00:00:05] [00:00:06] [00:00:07] [00:00:08] [00:00:09] The most significant [00:00:10] piece of federal [00:00:11] housing [00:00:12] legislation in decades just [00:00:13] became law [00:00:14] without a presidential [00:00:15] signature. [00:00:16] the [00:00:17] 21st Century [00:00:18] Renters [00:00:19] Opportunity, Autonomy, and [00:00:20] Democracy to [00:00:21] Housing Act passed [00:00:22] the US House and [00:00:23] Senate with overwhelming [00:00:24] bipartisan [00:00:25] majority. The law [00:00:26] to increase [00:00:27] housing supply and [00:00:28] affordability, among other [00:00:29] things, it [00:00:30] restricts large institutional [00:00:31] investors from [00:00:32] buying more than [00:00:33] 350 single-family [00:00:34] homes, [00:00:35] changes in how [00:00:36] manufactured homes get [00:00:37] financed, and [00:00:38] buried inside it [00:00:39] is a provision that [00:00:40] makes rent reporting [00:00:41] one of the primary [00:00:42] ways a large [00:00:43] landlord can keep [00:00:44] buying homes above the [00:00:45] ownership [00:00:46] cap.

How [00:00:47] far the supply piece [00:00:48] goes depends on [00:00:49] what states and cities do [00:00:50] with it. [00:00:51] Now, in the [00:00:52] US there are [00:00:53] 46 million [00:00:54] renter households. [00:00:55] Every [00:00:56] one of them goes through [00:00:57] a screening process [00:00:58] before they get a lease. [00:00:59] Most of that [00:01:00] screening still [00:01:01] runs on a credit [00:01:02] pool, a background [00:01:03] check, and a [00:01:04] database match that [00:01:05] stops short of [00:01:06] verifying whether an [00:01:07] identity is real.[00:01:08]

Fraud [00:01:09] gets through, qualified [00:01:10] applicants get [00:01:11] flagged, and the operators [00:01:12] running these [00:01:13] decisions have no [00:01:14] single place to see [00:01:15] any of it. [00:01:16]

Our guest [00:01:17] today is Rob [00:01:18] Whiting, co-founder [00:01:19] and CEO of [00:01:20] Boom. [00:01:21] Rob, where does this podcast [00:01:22] find you?

Rob: [00:01:23] Austin, Texas, [00:01:24] where our [00:01:25] company's [00:01:26] based

Edward: Austin and, and [00:01:27] Texas have [00:01:28] certainly been at the [00:01:29] forefront of, housing [00:01:30] production in, in last few [00:01:31] years to the benefit [00:01:32] of, renters and, [00:01:33] some homeowners. [00:01:34] Depends when you bought, depends when you [00:01:35] rented[00:01:36]

Rob: Yeah. I, [00:01:37] I'm, uh, 15, 16, is it now [00:01:38] [00:01:39] 17 years [00:01:40] [00:01:41] post-college, still renting [00:01:42] here, myself, [00:01:43] and actually [00:01:44] looking at a rental right [00:01:45] now, [00:01:46] and it's been [00:01:47] good. there's a lot of supply on the [00:01:48] market, so you can [00:01:49] definitely say [00:01:50] that

Edward: So before we [00:01:51] get into the [00:01:52] Housing Act and [00:01:53] into Boom, your [00:01:54] company, give [00:01:55] us the background. you're [00:01:56] in healthcare, [00:01:57] education and, and now [00:01:58] housing. these are [00:01:59] three pillars of, [00:02:00] society [00:02:01] worldwide. So what [00:02:02] pulled you towards [00:02:03] rentals [00:02:04] specifically?

Rob: you know, I [00:02:05] come from a middle, [00:02:06] middle-class [00:02:07] family. I [00:02:08] was [00:02:09] fortunate [00:02:10] to, after [00:02:11] graduation, go abroad, do some [00:02:12] traveling on a [00:02:13] fellowship, then [00:02:14] eventually did [00:02:15] consulting, and then I wanted to [00:02:16] go tackle [00:02:17] some of these bigger, bigger [00:02:18] problems. I had already done [00:02:19] some of the education [00:02:20] stuff while I was in college.[00:02:21]

Was [00:02:22] interested in both health and [00:02:23] housing. And if you look at the [00:02:24] kinda three big [00:02:25] cost buckets of everyday [00:02:26] Americans, it's those [00:02:27] three, and those are the things [00:02:28] that are, [00:02:29] inflating over time, pretty [00:02:30] significantly, [00:02:31] from a cost perspective, [00:02:32] and makes [00:02:33] up an oversi- [00:02:34] percentage of the budget [00:02:35] of kind of your [00:02:36] everyday Americans.

my [00:02:37] brothers still work in the [00:02:38] service industry, [00:02:39] barback, server, that [00:02:40] sorts of things. [00:02:41] And, kinda [00:02:42] had a very [00:02:43] brief [00:02:44] tenure in the healthcare [00:02:45] space, was very interested [00:02:46] in that, had a couple [00:02:47] things that were moving, [00:02:48] but ultimately [00:02:49] gravitated [00:02:50] towards housing. [00:02:51] boom, really started during [00:02:52] COVID [00:02:53] and, Brothers were [00:02:54] kind of impacted [00:02:55] by, losing [00:02:56] their jobs when all the [00:02:57] restaurants shut down. [00:02:58] Needed a new [00:02:59] job, helped them [00:03:00] edit their resume, had [00:03:01] some spare time, and then I [00:03:02] was like, well, they also needed a more [00:03:03] affordable rental. And [00:03:04] I was like, well, I'm already [00:03:05] looking at the space. I'd [00:03:06] done some, some [00:03:07] work on the [00:03:08] side with a private equity [00:03:09] fund that was building, seeing [00:03:10] one of the major [00:03:11] PMSes out there [00:03:12] for a, significant [00:03:13] investment.[00:03:14]

And so I was kinda [00:03:15] getting familiar with the [00:03:16] space, was already interested [00:03:17] in it, and as I went down that [00:03:18] path with them, I saw a lot [00:03:19] of the, the [00:03:20] problems from [00:03:21] the resident [00:03:22] side. Even though I'm still a [00:03:23] renter myself, I'm probably [00:03:24] more on the Class [00:03:25] A-ish [00:03:26] side. that's kinda really [00:03:27] where, those interests come [00:03:28] from, I think is just [00:03:29] personal [00:03:30] background.

Edward: Certainly no [00:03:31] shame in renting. I mean, [00:03:32] there's, arguably, [00:03:33] and [00:03:34] verifiably better places [00:03:35] to park your money if [00:03:36] you're thinking about [00:03:37] buying a home as [00:03:38] an investment, [00:03:39] right? If you're thinking [00:03:40] of buying a home as [00:03:41] a, lifestyle [00:03:42] choice or because [00:03:43] you need [00:03:44] to prioritize [00:03:45] certain, aspects of your [00:03:46] lifestyle and have [00:03:47] stability, that's [00:03:48] understandable.

But [00:03:49] no shame in renting. [00:03:50] I still rent [00:03:51] there and, and hoping to [00:03:52] rent many more [00:03:53] years

Rob: well, I don't have the [00:03:54] time to go do [00:03:55] housing care [00:03:56] and take care of all those [00:03:57] things. We [00:03:58] actually, I was [00:03:59] traveling, last few [00:04:00] days up to [00:04:01] Michigan, and I [00:04:02] got a text from my [00:04:03] wife, [00:04:04] raccoon upstairs, in the [00:04:05] room, paw prints [00:04:06] all over my desk.

[00:04:07] and then I was like, "Well, [00:04:08] we're moving out in two [00:04:09] weeks. Not really [00:04:10] my problem," And, [00:04:11] eventually we got it out, [00:04:12] for the time being, but, [00:04:13] you know, that's a whole bigger [00:04:14] thing. So [00:04:15] there are some [00:04:16] definite pros to [00:04:17] renting and I'm [00:04:18] definitely, [00:04:19] happy to do it for [00:04:20] now

Edward: For [00:04:21] me, it's just the ultimate [00:04:22] what you own [00:04:23] ends up owning you. [00:04:24] I don't wanna be [00:04:25] dealing with raccoons [00:04:26] myself. [00:04:27] so the 21st [00:04:28] Century Road to [00:04:29] Housing Act just [00:04:30] became law. [00:04:31] and for context, [00:04:32] we're recording this [00:04:33] on July [00:04:34] 17th. for people in this [00:04:35] audience who haven't been [00:04:36] tracking it, uh, as you [00:04:37] have, what is it [00:04:38] and, and why does it [00:04:39] matter?

Rob: [00:04:40] So the Road to Housing [00:04:41] Act is [00:04:42] a [00:04:43] large bill that has a [00:04:44] bunch of stuff in it [00:04:45] related to [00:04:46] different [00:04:47] sub-verticals of [00:04:48] housing. It's something that we've been [00:04:49] tracking for a while. I actually [00:04:50] wrote about it [00:04:51] a while back [00:04:52] when the seven-year limit [00:04:53] was in there. [00:04:54] There was a lot [00:04:55] more [00:04:56] teeth in it, and we [00:04:57] actually... I was in [00:04:58] DC, with [00:04:59] the National Rental [00:05:00] Housing Council, and we actually [00:05:01] visited a few [00:05:02] lawmakers the day that it was [00:05:03] signed, or that it [00:05:04] was, like, basically [00:05:05] re- [00:05:06] revoted on to push [00:05:07] back to [00:05:08] the other [00:05:09] chamber, for the final [00:05:10] review.

[00:05:11] So, we've been close to [00:05:12] it. [00:05:13] Basically, there's a bunch of [00:05:14] provisions in there, [00:05:15] and the broad [00:05:16] idea was to expand [00:05:17] housing access [00:05:18] for your everyday [00:05:19] Americans [00:05:20] and, home ownership [00:05:21] being a big piece of [00:05:22] that. there are a [00:05:23] couple areas [00:05:24] where he had some of the [00:05:25] outsized [00:05:26] publicity, [00:05:27] primarily on the [00:05:28] single family rentals [00:05:29] and, [00:05:30] built-to-rent side, [00:05:31] limitations [00:05:32] on your publicly [00:05:33] traded REITs, like your [00:05:34] Invitation Homes and [00:05:35] American Homes 4 [00:05:36] Rent.

but there was, uh, [00:05:37] stuff related to manufactured [00:05:38] housing and stuff relevant [00:05:39] to us to rent reporting, as [00:05:40] you mentioned. [00:05:41] so a lot, a lot [00:05:42] in there, [00:05:43] and a lot of [00:05:44] nuance that I think has gotten [00:05:45] missed in the [00:05:46] reporting on it that I've seen [00:05:47] so [00:05:48] far.

Edward: So [00:05:49] one of the main [00:05:50] provisions that is [00:05:51] catching the, headlines and, [00:05:52] could impact institutional [00:05:53] investors is that the [00:05:54] bill [00:05:55] restricts, institutional investors [00:05:56] with 300 or [00:05:57] more single-family [00:05:58] homes from buying more. [00:05:59] [00:06:00] So what are the [00:06:01] exemptions here, and how do [00:06:02] operators qualify [00:06:03] to keep buying more [00:06:04] homes?

And, what are your thoughts [00:06:05] around it?[00:06:06]

Rob: Yeah, it's a, it's [00:06:07] a, big piece [00:06:08] of it [00:06:09] because, as you know, [00:06:10] any [00:06:11] major notable [00:06:12] institutional owner [00:06:13] is gonna have more than [00:06:14] 350, your [00:06:15] AMH, your Tricon, [00:06:16] et cetera. [00:06:17] there are [00:06:18] a bunch of [00:06:19] accepted purchases, [00:06:20] what that 350 [00:06:21] limit means is, like, if [00:06:22] you have [00:06:23] 350 homes [00:06:24] today, you're [00:06:25] in scope.

Those count [00:06:26] towards your limit. you [00:06:27] don't have to sell [00:06:28] those or [00:06:29] dispose of them [00:06:30] or anything if you go [00:06:31] over. but they [00:06:32] do count towards your [00:06:33] limit. Now, anything [00:06:34] beyond that that you want to [00:06:35] buy or, [00:06:36] build in ter- in terms of [00:06:37] the portfolio, [00:06:38] those [00:06:39] do fall under [00:06:40] some [00:06:41] requirements, or if you [00:06:42] want to do them [00:06:43] and not have [00:06:44] to, sell them [00:06:45] immediately, you have to get [00:06:46] some accepted, what they [00:06:47] call accepted [00:06:48] purchases, some [00:06:49] exceptions.

[00:06:50] There are a [00:06:51] handful of, [00:06:52] exceptions that go [00:06:53] A through [00:06:54] J. and there's [00:06:55] many ways to [00:06:56] qualify, and there [00:06:57] are two in [00:06:58] particular that I [00:06:59] think are going to be [00:07:00] most [00:07:01] utilized by your, [00:07:02] the ones you [00:07:03] think about that I just [00:07:04] mentioned in the [00:07:05] space that they're gonna [00:07:06] utilize.

Edward: it's [00:07:07] interesting because although [00:07:08] institutional investors [00:07:09] own roughly [00:07:10] 30% of, of [00:07:11] single-family rental homes [00:07:12] nationwide, [00:07:13] certain [00:07:14] cities, I mean, their [00:07:15] presence may top [00:07:16] 20%. [00:07:17] However, that's, not [00:07:18] nearly enough to, [00:07:19] even [00:07:20] cause a dent or i- [00:07:21] impact, rent [00:07:22] pricing or, or that's [00:07:23] what it is being [00:07:24] argued on the [00:07:25] institutional investor side.

[00:07:26] So mean, we don't have a [00:07:27] crystal ball. Do [00:07:28] you think this is gonna [00:07:29] improve [00:07:30] housing affordability [00:07:31] and, housing [00:07:32] supply or, it's [00:07:33] very much TBD [00:07:34] because it depends on the [00:07:35] local government at the end [00:07:36] of the [00:07:37] day?

Rob: Yeah, someone asked [00:07:38] me, how big of a [00:07:39] deal is this? I said it's [00:07:40] kind of a medium to [00:07:41] large. it's [00:07:42] meaningful for sure, [00:07:43] and, uh, medium... There's a bunch [00:07:44] of dimensions of this [00:07:45] bill. For [00:07:46] the [00:07:47] SFRBTR space, what would be a [00:07:48] massive deal? A massive [00:07:49] deal would be [00:07:50] if [00:07:51] they did [00:07:52] limit Like, they did keep the [00:07:53] seven-year limit, they did [00:07:54] keep some hard caps[00:07:55]

Edward: just to clarify, [00:07:56] you mentioned the seven-year [00:07:57] limit a couple of times. For [00:07:58] those who aren't familiar, [00:07:59] tell us about the seven-year [00:08:00] limit

Rob: [00:08:01] Originally, Elizabeth [00:08:02] Warren put a term in there that [00:08:03] said you can't [00:08:04] hold [00:08:05] single family or [00:08:06] built, built-to-rent homes [00:08:07] longer than seven [00:08:08] years, and then you had to sell, [00:08:09] you had to offer them and sell [00:08:10] them up. So [00:08:11] basically, this whole [00:08:12] concept of a, [00:08:13] publicly traded REIT [00:08:14] that you're holding and [00:08:15] renting out, [00:08:16] homes, just [00:08:17] wouldn't exist [00:08:18] effectively

Edward: [00:08:19] interesting. was it, uh, [00:08:20] American Homes for [00:08:21] Rent or Home Partners of [00:08:22] America, didn't one of [00:08:23] them have a model [00:08:24] where that's [00:08:25] exactly what they did though as [00:08:26] part of their, [00:08:27] investment thesis?

Rob: [00:08:28] I believe it was Home [00:08:29] Partners of America [00:08:30] was the same, like a [00:08:31] home ownership, path to [00:08:32] home ownership [00:08:33] piece. the path to home [00:08:34] ownership thing is, [00:08:35] there's Divvy Homes [00:08:36] who we, used to [00:08:37] w- work with, now work with [00:08:38] Maimon. this [00:08:39] model has a bunch of different [00:08:40] permutations But [00:08:41] at any rate, [00:08:42] there was this [00:08:43] seven-year cap. [00:08:44] That's where that came out. [00:08:45] That was the big talk of [00:08:46] the town at [00:08:47] the IMN [00:08:48] BTR conference, a [00:08:49] few months back, [00:08:50] [00:08:51] and, that did get taken [00:08:52] out. I believe, [00:08:53] most people thought [00:08:54] is this is a bargaining chip [00:08:55] to get other things [00:08:56] in and, the [00:08:57] Elizabeth Warrens of the world [00:08:58] were probably [00:08:59] recognizing this might not be in [00:09:00] there at the end, [00:09:01] but as a point of [00:09:02] leverage for, getting [00:09:03] this through with some other [00:09:04] terms.

but [00:09:05] going back [00:09:06] to So [00:09:07] th- there's a bunch of different, what they [00:09:08] call accepted [00:09:09] purchases, this is if you [00:09:10] read into the bill, there's [00:09:11] section [00:09:12] 1001. [00:09:13] It basically [00:09:14] says, yeah, you got the [00:09:15] 350 cap, [00:09:16] but you [00:09:17] can buy more beyond [00:09:18] that, and you can still have [00:09:19] more [00:09:20] if these homes [00:09:21] fall into one [00:09:22] of, I don't know, it's [00:09:23] like, nine, whatever A [00:09:24] through J [00:09:25] totals up to, with [00:09:26] nine exceptions.[00:09:27]

And [00:09:28] the two that I think are gonna [00:09:29] be most [00:09:30] utilized are for new [00:09:31] construction is, [00:09:32] accepted purchase B, [00:09:33] which you look at this, it [00:09:34] basically says any new [00:09:35] construction, [00:09:36] hey, we wanna [00:09:37] encourage new [00:09:38] construction, so basically any new [00:09:39] construction, we're good [00:09:40] with. And [00:09:41] so that is a [00:09:42] core model [00:09:43] of the, [00:09:44] Tricons, First [00:09:45] Keys, AMHs, [00:09:46] those types of big [00:09:47] vertically integrated [00:09:48] players is it's not [00:09:49] all of it, but [00:09:50] building new, [00:09:51] BTR communities is [00:09:52] a, piece.

[00:09:53] Those are accepted, [00:09:54] out.

Edward: Not [00:09:55] multifamily

Rob: So the whole [00:09:56] thing doesn't apply to [00:09:57] multifamily, and it [00:09:58] also, this, 350 [00:09:59] cap doesn't apply to [00:10:00] multifamily, it [00:10:01] doesn't apply to manufactured [00:10:02] housing. it's [00:10:03] explicitly single [00:10:04] family, this [00:10:05] SFR, BTR [00:10:06] space.

the other [00:10:07] part is existing [00:10:08] home acquisition, which is, [00:10:09] I think, the bigger [00:10:10] piece there are [00:10:11] some places, like you [00:10:12] mentioned, 20%. I think [00:10:13] it's like there's Jacksonville, [00:10:14] Florida, my [00:10:15] hometown. there's [00:10:16] Atlanta, s- [00:10:17] Phoenix. you know, your Sun [00:10:18] Belt markets [00:10:19] where [00:10:20] these companies do [00:10:21] make up a larger [00:10:22] percentage. [00:10:23] I'm not an [00:10:24] economist. I spend [00:10:25] time, my time worrying about [00:10:26] different types of [00:10:27] problems than how does [00:10:28] this impact, [00:10:29] pricing and [00:10:30] when...

I think it [00:10:31] also matters when a [00:10:32] new home goes on the market, [00:10:33] who's bidding, right? It's [00:10:34] not just, like, who [00:10:35] owns the homes. I actually think [00:10:36] of who has the bidding power [00:10:37] and who's putting those [00:10:38] bids. so I don't know. I'm, I'm [00:10:39] not gonna be an [00:10:40] expert there, but [00:10:41] I do think these, [00:10:42] verticalized [00:10:43] players, they have [00:10:44] two things.

They're building new [00:10:45] stuff, and they're [00:10:46] buying stuff, and the build [00:10:47] new stuff is gonna [00:10:48] be business as [00:10:49] usual, because there was [00:10:50] a accepted purchase [00:10:51] carved out for that. That's point [00:10:52] B. And the, the [00:10:53] buy new [00:10:54] stuff I think there's a few [00:10:55] ways they can qualify, but [00:10:56] the [00:10:57] most [00:10:58] easiest, so to speak, [00:10:59] is accepted [00:11:00] option, E, [00:11:01] which [00:11:02] basically says [00:11:03] if you [00:11:04] do sell, [00:11:05] you gotta [00:11:06] give the resident at the [00:11:07] time 30 [00:11:08] days to right of [00:11:09] first refusal to buy it.

[00:11:10] That's one [00:11:11] piece. Part B [00:11:12] is you need to offer [00:11:13] positive rent reporting, [00:11:14] which is good for [00:11:15] us. Boom, we offer rent [00:11:16] reporting through our Boom [00:11:17] Report product. [00:11:18] and three [00:11:19] is you [00:11:20] may offer some financ- uh, [00:11:21] support. It says [00:11:22] may, which [00:11:23] my interpretation [00:11:24] of that is, it means it's not [00:11:25] required. [00:11:26] So it effectively [00:11:27] means just offer [00:11:28] rent reporting, and then if [00:11:29] you do sell [00:11:30] it, make it available to [00:11:31] the renter to buy at a [00:11:32] fair market price [00:11:33] as the first one who [00:11:34] gets to, see it.[00:11:35]

So, there's [00:11:36] other ways, but they're a bit [00:11:37] more stringent and [00:11:38] have harder [00:11:39] requirements. So [00:11:40] that's what I [00:11:41] expect them to take [00:11:42] advantage [00:11:43] of

Edward: Yeah, so [00:11:44] many [00:11:45] nuances and, key [00:11:46] words in there that [00:11:47] may change the [00:11:48] entire meaning of the [00:11:49] sentence or the provision. [00:11:50] so does this [00:11:51] mean boom [00:11:52] time for [00:11:53] BTR [00:11:54] community developers? or [00:11:55] what do you expect? [00:11:56] Because it seems [00:11:57] like that's [00:11:58] a, key way of adding [00:11:59] new supply and [00:12:00] also not [00:12:01] going over the cap, [00:12:02] legally.

Rob: [00:12:03] I think [00:12:04] maybe is the [00:12:05] answer. the reason I say [00:12:06] that is [00:12:07] already [00:12:08] they could [00:12:09] build, I don't know what the [00:12:10] other pieces in the [00:12:11] bill are around [00:12:12] financing, if there was any [00:12:13] special things that would give [00:12:14] them more of a [00:12:15] propulsion [00:12:16] to [00:12:17] build more stuff.[00:12:18]

[00:12:19] But, they could [00:12:20] already build [00:12:21] stuff before, so, [00:12:22] it may be [00:12:23] neutral. [00:12:24] What it does, and [00:12:25] I do know, and I heard [00:12:26] from others in the [00:12:27] space, is in the [00:12:28] past six to [00:12:29] 12 [00:12:30] months, there [00:12:31] were a lot of projects that [00:12:32] were put on hold [00:12:33] and [00:12:34] waiting for clarity, [00:12:35] and, I [00:12:36] think there's a lag time on [00:12:37] all of this stuff, [00:12:38] so there will probably [00:12:39] still be a few more months [00:12:40] before people get going [00:12:41] again.

But I, I heard [00:12:42] financing [00:12:43] discussions kind of were put on [00:12:44] pause, bill [00:12:45] discussions, then you gotta get the [00:12:46] contractors going. So I think [00:12:47] a lot [00:12:48] of that, [00:12:49] probably there weren't as many [00:12:50] starts on [00:12:51] this new stuff in the [00:12:52] last, call it six to [00:12:53] 12 months, but, uh, [00:12:54] that probably will [00:12:55] restart here. That would be my [00:12:56] guess

Edward: [00:12:57] Mm-hmm. So [00:12:58] you hinted at this [00:12:59] earlier, rent [00:13:00] reporting. rent reporting [00:13:01] is one of the [00:13:02] defined paths to [00:13:03] becoming an [00:13:04] excepted [00:13:05] purchaser under the bill. [00:13:06] So what does that mean [00:13:07] in practice for a [00:13:08] large owner trying [00:13:09] to stay compliant and, [00:13:10] and keep buying [00:13:11] homes?

Rob: So what [00:13:12] that means in practice [00:13:13] is, you [00:13:14] need to [00:13:15] offer rent reporting [00:13:16] to your residents. [00:13:17] It doesn't say you have to [00:13:18] pay for it, [00:13:19] so you can offer it at [00:13:20] a [00:13:21] fee. What it means to [00:13:22] implement it, it means [00:13:23] working with [00:13:24] someone like [00:13:25] us, there are a few [00:13:26] other players, [00:13:27] obviously, [00:13:28] to integrate with your [00:13:29] PMS.

We track your [00:13:30] rent payments, [00:13:31] we verify they were [00:13:32] paid for your [00:13:33] residents, the ones who have [00:13:34] opted in, and [00:13:35] we report them. [00:13:36] Now, optionally, we'll [00:13:37] ledger the charges [00:13:38] if you wanna [00:13:39] charge a couple [00:13:40] bucks and, our cost is [00:13:41] XYZ. [00:13:42] So there is [00:13:43] a, there's an [00:13:44] economic piece to it as [00:13:45] well. Some of these [00:13:46] operators will choose to just [00:13:47] include it as part [00:13:48] of the residency.

[00:13:49] So there's different [00:13:50] models from an [00:13:51] economic standpoint, but it basically [00:13:52] means tying [00:13:53] up with someone like [00:13:54] us, [00:13:55] and offering it to your [00:13:56] residents, and it's [00:13:57] putting some lease addendum [00:13:58] around it or [00:13:59] a way to [00:14:00] acknowledge that you [00:14:01] were offered it [00:14:02] and/or opt in. [00:14:03] [00:14:04] now I've already had some [00:14:05] operators reach out to [00:14:06] us.

Like in the last [00:14:07] week [00:14:08] alone, we've [00:14:09] had, I think [00:14:10] four [00:14:11] notable na-names that [00:14:12] I knew before reach [00:14:13] out [00:14:14] and ask [00:14:15] to set up a meeting. [00:14:16] some people already had stuff in [00:14:17] place as part of [00:14:18] a resident amenity [00:14:19] offering. [00:14:20] So, there's that, and we [00:14:21] al-already work with a n- [00:14:22] a large number of, [00:14:23] folks, but that's [00:14:24] effectively what it [00:14:25] means.

Edward: [00:14:26] So where, in [00:14:27] the general [00:14:28] picture, where does [00:14:29] PropTech fit into all of [00:14:30] this? Does the [00:14:31] legislation, create [00:14:32] opportunity or [00:14:33] uncertainty for a tech [00:14:34] company servicing rental [00:14:35] housing?

Rob: [00:14:36] it definitely creates [00:14:37] more certainty for [00:14:38] sure. I [00:14:39] think there's [00:14:40] also other [00:14:41] interesting stuff on the manufactured [00:14:42] housing [00:14:43] side. there's a number, and I [00:14:44] don't know, again, I'm, I [00:14:45] didn't study all the [00:14:46] other parts of the bill. [00:14:47] I'm sure there's other [00:14:48] implications for other parts of [00:14:49] the, stack.[00:14:50]

But yeah, from [00:14:51] what I can tell, it [00:14:52] just encourages [00:14:53] more new home [00:14:54] construction, [00:14:55] gives the operators more [00:14:56] clarity. So in [00:14:57] general, I think it's, I think it's [00:14:58] positive

Edward: [00:14:59] Awesome. [00:15:00] let's move on and walk us [00:15:01] through what [00:15:02] Boom is today and, who [00:15:03] it's built [00:15:04] for

Rob: So [00:15:05] what Boom is doing is we're [00:15:06] building [00:15:07] [00:15:08] operational, software [00:15:09] for [00:15:10] residential property [00:15:11] managers, [00:15:12] and, this [00:15:13] is everything [00:15:14] from the, [00:15:15] leasing and [00:15:16] syndication to the [00:15:17] renewals. We don't do all of [00:15:18] that today. Really, [00:15:19] where we focus [00:15:20] is on the [00:15:21] leasing part of the [00:15:22] experience primarily. Like I [00:15:23] said, we do rent [00:15:24] reporting, which is where [00:15:25] we started, and [00:15:26] as we did [00:15:27] that, we got pretty good at [00:15:28] integrations and data [00:15:29] and, reporting's [00:15:30] a thankless job.

It's, [00:15:31] low dollar [00:15:32] value, [00:15:33] very difficult, [00:15:34] easy to mess [00:15:35] up. thousands of [00:15:36] renters with individual [00:15:37] nuances, and you're [00:15:38] integrating with these [00:15:39] old credit bureaus that [00:15:40] have each [00:15:41] different parameters and [00:15:42] constraints [00:15:43] and matching logic. [00:15:44] So we got pretty [00:15:45] good at that, and [00:15:46] then through [00:15:47] that, we launched our [00:15:48] second product, Boom [00:15:49] Screen, which is an [00:15:50] applicant [00:15:51] underwriting [00:15:52] software, for [00:15:53] applications and [00:15:54] screening, right?

So, [00:15:55] residents [00:15:56] find an interest in a [00:15:57] property, [00:15:58] they go to apply. [00:15:59] [00:16:00] Historically, there were some legacy [00:16:01] solutions [00:16:02] that, I would call them [00:16:03] either very [00:16:04] rigid in how they [00:16:05] approach things in [00:16:06] terms of their [00:16:07] criteria, their configuration. [00:16:08] [00:16:09] Over [00:16:10] time, expectations of [00:16:11] product managers have [00:16:12] grown in terms [00:16:13] of what they expect [00:16:14] out of a user [00:16:15] experience, and [00:16:16] portfolios have gotten more [00:16:17] complex.

so we built Boom [00:16:18] Screen. We've been [00:16:19] scaling that [00:16:20] and Boom Report to [00:16:21] hundreds of thousands [00:16:22] of doors, [00:16:23] and now [00:16:24] we've launched our third product, [00:16:25] which is Boom CRM, which is an [00:16:26] [00:16:27] agentic, leasing and [00:16:28] self-showing, [00:16:29] solution that sits, [00:16:30] works well with Boom [00:16:31] Screen and sits on top of [00:16:32] it.

Edward: So [00:16:33] the trifecta, [00:16:34] congratulations on, uh, [00:16:35] launching your, latest [00:16:36] product. tenant [00:16:37] screening, I mean, to [00:16:38] many it sounds like a [00:16:39] commodity. credit [00:16:40] check, background check, you [00:16:41] move on. So [00:16:42] how do you [00:16:43] differentiate yourself?

Rob: [00:16:44] Yeah, it's a great call out, [00:16:45] and I actually, when [00:16:46] we started [00:16:47] looking into [00:16:48] tenant screening, 'cause like I [00:16:49] said, we were doing rent reporting and people [00:16:50] said, "Hey, you're good at sending [00:16:51] data to credit bureaus. Can you [00:16:52] pull data?"[00:16:53]

Edward: Ühüm

Rob: And we said, [00:16:54] "Well, what are you [00:16:55] talking about?" And we learned that [00:16:56] the PMSs had their [00:16:57] own thing.

There were some [00:16:58] startups, and we basically [00:16:59] found, two [00:17:00] classes of [00:17:01] problems. one was [00:17:02] the [00:17:03] [00:17:04] rigidity of the [00:17:05] incumbent or [00:17:06] legacy [00:17:07] solutions on the [00:17:08] workflows that they [00:17:09] enabled. So workflows is [00:17:10] a big one. and [00:17:11] configurability and how [00:17:12] you do that. And then the [00:17:13] second thing that we found [00:17:14] when the, newer [00:17:15] companies out there that [00:17:16] were VC-backed [00:17:17] that came up through [00:17:18] this kind of 2017 to ' [00:17:19] 2018 to 2022 kind of [00:17:20] PropTech [00:17:21] boom, they were wrappers, [00:17:22] right? So they were nice user [00:17:23] experience. You [00:17:24] have your credit criminal [00:17:25] eviction bundle that you [00:17:26] can get from [00:17:27] TransUnion.

the good thing [00:17:28] about that is the credit data's [00:17:29] pretty good. It's pretty [00:17:30] easy to get it all at [00:17:31] one place, [00:17:32] but [00:17:33] the housing court [00:17:34] data, the eviction da- [00:17:35] the criminal data, they're [00:17:36] on top of another [00:17:37] solution, which is on top of another [00:17:38] solution. [00:17:39] So, they were [00:17:40] fairly, these, these [00:17:41] newer solutions out there that [00:17:42] were coming up, were [00:17:43] fairly surface [00:17:44] level.

and the data quality [00:17:45] was much [00:17:46] poorer. and it's not [00:17:47] just as simple as say, "Go [00:17:48] get a background check." [00:17:49] Actually, [00:17:50] there's a lot of hit lo- [00:17:51] we call it hit [00:17:52] logic, which is [00:17:53] Rob [00:17:54] Whiting, 39 years [00:17:55] old in [00:17:56] Travis County, [00:17:57] if I just put - Rob [00:17:58] Whiting, that's how I was [00:17:59] booked when I was arrested [00:18:00] and I was booked in the [00:18:01] jail, there might be another [00:18:02] Rob Whiting.

Uh, [00:18:03] might be a Ro- like [00:18:04] Robert Whiting. What about [00:18:05] Robert Whiting? What [00:18:06] about, there was a [00:18:07] misspelling? Those happen [00:18:08] all the time, [00:18:09] and if you get a [00:18:10] more common name, you can very [00:18:11] easily pull the different records. [00:18:12] So even just in criminal [00:18:13] data alone, [00:18:14] matching logic is [00:18:15] very important and [00:18:16] how specific you are.[00:18:17]

But [00:18:18] the main kind of [00:18:19] thing that I would say [00:18:20] is like we ended [00:18:21] up finding out [00:18:22] that [00:18:23] workflows, data [00:18:24] quality, [00:18:25] depth, those things were [00:18:26] all very important, [00:18:27] and the current [00:18:28] solutions [00:18:29] were push a [00:18:30] button, run a [00:18:31] report, get a [00:18:32] PDF. And that [00:18:33] doesn't enable a [00:18:34] lot of [00:18:35] [00:18:36] fast-moving, centralized [00:18:37] leasing [00:18:38] and depth when [00:18:39] you're, tied down [00:18:40] to a PDF that [00:18:41] the [00:18:42] credit bureau gives you [00:18:43] that's two [00:18:44] layers above the [00:18:45] source data, so to [00:18:46] speak.

That's where we [00:18:47] originally thought as well, [00:18:48] and as we dug in, we [00:18:49] thought it, we found it [00:18:50] was, much more about [00:18:51] workflows and [00:18:52] configurability, data [00:18:53] quality and depth. [00:18:54]

Edward: if, uh, [00:18:55] similar names are an [00:18:56] issue that you can get [00:18:57] entangled with other [00:18:58] people with the same name, you [00:18:59] could, release a [00:19:00] unique baby name [00:19:01] generator, [00:19:02] where [00:19:03] recommended by Boom, [00:19:04] name your baby this [00:19:05] and you will not get [00:19:06] confused with, uh, [00:19:07] other people 'cause [00:19:08] you're the only one with this [00:19:09] name.

Rob: Well, and, [00:19:10] and the story that I would [00:19:11] say about this matching [00:19:12] logic and why it's so [00:19:13] important, [00:19:14] I went to my [00:19:15] school to, my [00:19:16] daughter had a play, this [00:19:17] was her current [00:19:18] elementary school. they [00:19:19] pulled me up, [00:19:20] and [00:19:21] they have a [00:19:22] very, [00:19:23] apparently a very [00:19:24] basic, background check [00:19:25] solution in place.

[00:19:26] input my name. [00:19:27] I think they even put [00:19:28] Rob Whiting, ' [00:19:29] and it pulled up a [00:19:30] sex offender. Big [00:19:31] red bar. I didn't see the [00:19:32] screen. Big s- [00:19:33] big red bar [00:19:34] on the bottom of the [00:19:35] screen. there's a sex [00:19:36] offender database.

It's a [00:19:37] nationwide database. It [00:19:38] has images in [00:19:39] there, generally speaking. [00:19:40] this is what those sex [00:19:41] offender, like, "Hey, a ch- a [00:19:42] sex offender just moved in next [00:19:43] to you." These apps are built [00:19:44] on, some, this [00:19:45] publicly available [00:19:46] data, but their [00:19:47] hit logic [00:19:48] must have been [00:19:49] off, [00:19:50] and there was an image, and the [00:19:51] lady was like, "This [00:19:52] clearly isn't you."

You [00:19:53] know, the, the [00:19:54] grizzled. but there was another [00:19:55] guy in that [00:19:56] example that I origin- I [00:19:57] referred to [00:19:58] originally. that [00:19:59] happens, and [00:20:00] when that happens, you [00:20:01] reject someone for [00:20:02] housing. now that [00:20:03] housing was taken by someone [00:20:04] else, it's off the [00:20:05] market. You've [00:20:06] curtailed someone's ability [00:20:07] to access [00:20:08] housing.

this is serious [00:20:09] stuff. And, actually [00:20:10] one of our data [00:20:11] vendors, we asked them, [00:20:12] like, "How are we [00:20:13] doing? how type A [00:20:14] detail-oriented, what [00:20:15] are our processes?" They're like, [00:20:16] "You and this other [00:20:17] company [00:20:18] are our best vendors. We always [00:20:19] bring you guys up as, like, [00:20:20] you've got your [00:20:21] processes together."

[00:20:22] And actually, one of the [00:20:23] PMSs they used to work [00:20:24] with, they fired the [00:20:25] PMS, one of their biggest [00:20:26] accounts, [00:20:27] because they were so [00:20:28] cavalier with how they handled the [00:20:29] data. [00:20:30] Because they could get [00:20:31] pulled into [00:20:32] lawsuits. Even though [00:20:33] they were just an [00:20:34] infrastructure layer, they're [00:20:35] still exposed as well.

[00:20:36] So, we act as [00:20:37] the CRA, the consumer [00:20:38] reporting agency. We put our [00:20:39] name, our stamp [00:20:40] on these reports, [00:20:41] so we have to [00:20:42] have our stuff [00:20:43] together. it's a tedious [00:20:44] business, and, there's a [00:20:45] lot of downside risk [00:20:46] there when you [00:20:47] take on that.

Edward: [00:20:48] when you're an [00:20:49] operator of any, [00:20:50] rental housing, whether it is [00:20:51] single-family [00:20:52] rentals or manufactured [00:20:53] housing or [00:20:54] even multifamily, how [00:20:55] can operators [00:20:56] know or, [00:20:57] what are the right [00:20:58] questions you would [00:20:59] suggest they ask [00:21:00] when reviewing [00:21:01] what credit [00:21:02] reporting [00:21:03] tool to [00:21:04] implement, to partner with, [00:21:05] to understand [00:21:06] whether it is [00:21:07] just a wrapper, like you said, [00:21:08] or whether you [00:21:09] actually have your stuff [00:21:10] together and you're not, [00:21:11] missing qualified [00:21:12] renters or letting [00:21:13] fraudulent renters go [00:21:14] through?

Rob: Yeah, I [00:21:15] would say the [00:21:16] things that I would ask [00:21:17] about, I if I was on a [00:21:18] demo with a [00:21:19] screening co- like an [00:21:20] underwriting [00:21:21] company, it would really [00:21:22] depend on the size [00:21:23] of myself as of [00:21:24] my portfolio [00:21:25] of the questions I [00:21:26] asked, [00:21:27] and it would also [00:21:28] depend on the asset [00:21:29] class.

There are certain [00:21:30] questions that I would ask in [00:21:31] manufactured housing that I would [00:21:32] not ask in single [00:21:33] family versus also [00:21:34] multifamily I would ask [00:21:35] certain things. [00:21:36] So one [00:21:37] category, the [00:21:38] obvious one, is [00:21:39] integrations. Like, do you integrate with [00:21:40] my PMS? What does [00:21:41] that mean? Do you [00:21:42] push and pull data? Do [00:21:43] you push only on [00:21:44] decision?

Do [00:21:45] you push on when [00:21:46] they submit the [00:21:47] application? Do you update [00:21:48] every step of the [00:21:49] way? There's a [00:21:50] ton of [00:21:51] nuance there. What does [00:21:52] that look like from a [00:21:53] data perspective? [00:21:54] What does it look like from an applicant [00:21:55] perspective, the [00:21:56] ingress or the entry [00:21:57] point into the [00:21:58] application, [00:21:59] what does that look like?

So that [00:22:00] integration, [00:22:01] and what [00:22:02] user experience that [00:22:03] enables both from the PM and [00:22:04] the resident side is [00:22:05] important. second bucket that I [00:22:06] would be asking about [00:22:07] is [00:22:08] configurability. hey, I've got [00:22:09] different [00:22:10] parts of my portfolio [00:22:11] that fall into [00:22:12] different asset classes, [00:22:13] or I've got an owner who [00:22:14] wants to do something very [00:22:15] nuanced, but he [00:22:16] owns, you know, [00:22:17] X number of properties and [00:22:18] the rest of my portfolio does [00:22:19] something different.

I've [00:22:20] got someone in new [00:22:21] geography. How do you [00:22:22] handle [00:22:23] multi-geography? If [00:22:24] a new regulation [00:22:25] just came up or it would [00:22:26] come up, how [00:22:27] can I carve [00:22:28] out and handle [00:22:29] that just for [00:22:30] that section? [00:22:31] So this kind [00:22:32] of [00:22:33] configurability is a big area [00:22:34] that I would talk about. [00:22:35] And then I would [00:22:36] ask about, I [00:22:37] would go deep on [00:22:38] data, definitely [00:22:39] on the, [00:22:40] what I call passive [00:22:41] reports, credit, [00:22:42] criminal eviction.

[00:22:43] Things that I would ask [00:22:44] are some of the things I just [00:22:45] mentioned. where do you guys get [00:22:46] your criminal data from? [00:22:47] And if they can't answer [00:22:48] or they answer [00:22:49] someone that's two layers [00:22:50] above the, the data, [00:22:51] then you [00:22:52] know the [00:22:53] response time to get a dispute [00:22:54] resolved is gonna be longer. [00:22:55] You know that [00:22:56] they're gonna sort less [00:22:57] data, 'cause once you go a few [00:22:58] layers up, everyone gets a [00:22:59] little bit more [00:23:00] conservative the higher up in the [00:23:01] stack.

then I [00:23:02] would ask about the, [00:23:03] [00:23:04] consumer-driven, uh, verifications. [00:23:05] Your identity [00:23:06] verification, your income verification. [00:23:07] It's not as simple as say, do you [00:23:08] have [00:23:09] income verification? [00:23:10] Well, yes, but there's a [00:23:11] lot of nuance to that. [00:23:12] Do you verify [00:23:13] documents? [00:23:14] Yes, but which [00:23:15] ones?

Do you ver- [00:23:16] benefit letters, offer [00:23:17] letters? Do you do it [00:23:18] in the moment, like when [00:23:19] they're going through the [00:23:20] flow, and can you do it real [00:23:21] time in seconds? [00:23:22] Or do you do [00:23:23] it asynchronously after they check [00:23:24] out, which [00:23:25] how do you handle [00:23:26] blurry docs? How do you [00:23:27] handle locked [00:23:28] PDFs, password [00:23:29] protected? Then you're [00:23:30] document chasing again.

[00:23:31] I would bucket into [00:23:32] integrations and [00:23:33] how that impacts user [00:23:34] experience, [00:23:35] configurability, [00:23:36] data [00:23:37] verifications. There's a whole [00:23:38] compliance [00:23:39] question, like are [00:23:40] you set up to [00:23:41] protect us? If you're [00:23:42] larger, you're gonna care about those [00:23:43] things. If you're smaller, [00:23:44] you know, you're kind of shooting [00:23:45] from the hip a little more.

[00:23:46] and then how do [00:23:47] teams collaborate is [00:23:48] probably the last bucket, [00:23:49] is how [00:23:50] do we work [00:23:51] through [00:23:52] applications, I think, with AI [00:23:53] [00:23:54] and how is a [00:23:55] company enabled [00:23:56] to embrace [00:23:57] that? [00:23:58] Really what, with leasing [00:23:59] and you asked, like [00:24:00] isn't screening a [00:24:01] commodity? I kind [00:24:02] of brought it back to [00:24:03] workflows, but I think [00:24:04] AI is gonna [00:24:05] enable so much [00:24:06] and, [00:24:07] I mean, obviously Claude has [00:24:08] shown us what [00:24:09] workflows can look [00:24:10] like.

[00:24:11] But, I predicted [00:24:12] actually, I'd say [00:24:13] last year the, the [00:24:14] buzzword was fraud. This year [00:24:15] I I think, and I [00:24:16] pr- this is what I said at [00:24:17] Christmas. We do a [00:24:18] Christmas dinner for the team, and I [00:24:19] said, "Next year it's gonna [00:24:20] be workflows. I think [00:24:21] that's gonna be the [00:24:22] buzzword." I think [00:24:23] it kind of is, and I [00:24:24] think Claude and [00:24:25] AI has enabled [00:24:26] that.

and people [00:24:27] are talking about [00:24:28] connectivity to your stack. [00:24:29] So I [00:24:30] would ask, like how does your [00:24:31] team collaborate? How do you [00:24:32] enable AI [00:24:33] to, parallel [00:24:34] thread most of [00:24:35] these verifications? [00:24:36] it's a ping pong with [00:24:37] the applicant, right? The [00:24:38] back and forth. So, [00:24:39] yeah, those are, I a [00:24:40] host of buckets of [00:24:41] areas that I would, talk [00:24:42] about.

Edward: Wow, [00:24:43] that was, an entire [00:24:44] crash course, thank you [00:24:45] for that, [00:24:46] so you, talk [00:24:47] about your, you know, your [00:24:48] strategic partnerships. You have an [00:24:49] exclusive partnership [00:24:50] with Manage America, [00:24:51] the dominant property [00:24:52] management software in [00:24:53] manufactured housing.

[00:24:54] So how did that [00:24:55] come together and, and [00:24:56] what changes for [00:24:57] [00:24:58] operators?

Rob: It's a funny story. [00:24:59] We were actually [00:25:00] at [00:25:01] our first [00:25:02] conference we ever went [00:25:03] to, which [00:25:04] was MHI Congress, [00:25:05] which is the [00:25:06] largest, and there aren't [00:25:07] many, manufactured [00:25:08] housing [00:25:09] conferences, uh, out [00:25:10] there. we were [00:25:11] unboxing our booth. We'd [00:25:12] never even opened [00:25:13] this booth.

We just got it. [00:25:14] We were like, "What is it gonna look [00:25:15] like? We don't even know." So we [00:25:16] set it up, we're [00:25:17] sweating, we're setting up the [00:25:18] booth. [00:25:19] We're all ready for the next [00:25:20] day, and the next [00:25:21] day it was [00:25:22] amazing. cause we had [00:25:23] this bright pink booth, and [00:25:24] everyone, not a [00:25:25] lot of new stuff comes [00:25:26] through manufactured housing, [00:25:27] so everyone was interested [00:25:28] to hear [00:25:29] what we were talking about.

And it [00:25:30] didn't hurt that we were giving [00:25:31] away poker chips, 'cause we were [00:25:32] in Las Vegas, so we were like, [00:25:33] "Here's $5." [00:25:34] And Manage [00:25:35] America came over [00:25:36] and they introduced [00:25:37] themselves, this is someone [00:25:38] on their product team, [00:25:39] and they said, [00:25:40] "Hey, we're like, new [00:25:41] leadership," they had new [00:25:42] private equity [00:25:43] backing.

We're gonna be changing [00:25:44] some things, and we're [00:25:45] looking to get, you know, we heard [00:25:46] some, some things [00:25:47] about you [00:25:48] guys. We're interested in talking about [00:25:49] rental reporting." cause we [00:25:50] weren't really public. This [00:25:51] was May of [00:25:52] 2024, when [00:25:53] we were [00:25:54] just starting to [00:25:55] publicly talk about, even though [00:25:56] it wasn't on our website, [00:25:57] we were actually [00:25:58] actively selling [00:25:59] Boom screening, our sc- our [00:26:00] [00:26:01] applications, software, [00:26:02] module.

So, they came [00:26:03] over. We said, [00:26:04] "Yeah, let's, let's, chat. [00:26:05] There is some other things that [00:26:06] we're doing as [00:26:07] well." And then we got on a demo, [00:26:08] and they were in [00:26:09] process of [00:26:10] rebuilding, [00:26:11] basically from the ground [00:26:12] up, [00:26:13] their screening [00:26:14] solution. they had a few [00:26:15] vendors picked out for [00:26:16] income, for et [00:26:17] cetera.

we just kind of [00:26:18] showed them how they [00:26:19] could co-build with us [00:26:20] and get the best [00:26:21] of, [00:26:22] one, [00:26:23] compliance coverage, take [00:26:24] that risk off their [00:26:25] books, where, hey, [00:26:26] this is an [00:26:27] arms-length but int- [00:26:28] fully integrated [00:26:29] [00:26:30] solution. economics, [00:26:31] like the scale that they [00:26:32] brought, we were [00:26:33] fairly new, [00:26:34] but we had [00:26:35] pretty good product, [00:26:36] taste and [00:26:37] approach, [00:26:38] and the product [00:26:39] velocity of just, like, [00:26:40] how quickly we can, [00:26:41] build, and we're [00:26:42] laser focused on this, [00:26:43] and this would free up their time to [00:26:44] do other [00:26:45] things.

there was a bake-off with [00:26:46] a handful of other [00:26:47] vendors, that [00:26:48] they were circulating [00:26:49] us to their [00:26:50] client base. "What do you think about [00:26:51] Boom? What do you think about this [00:26:52] one?" And kind of we're doing a [00:26:53] little bit of a [00:26:54] mini roadshow. [00:26:55] We spun up a sandbox [00:26:56] for them, a branded [00:26:57] sandbox, [00:26:58] and, before we went live with [00:26:59] anyone, I think we [00:27:00] had, a [00:27:01] roadmap that was [00:27:02] close to a year [00:27:03] of [00:27:04] co-building. I mean, it [00:27:05] mo- it had to be [00:27:06] close to a year, [00:27:07] with [00:27:08] hundreds of items [00:27:09] of things that they [00:27:10] wanted. So it was [00:27:11] fantastic because we got [00:27:12] this, I'd call it like [00:27:13] a meta, , [00:27:14] feedback, point [00:27:15] from them [00:27:16] through all of their [00:27:17] customers, [00:27:18] and that really accelerated [00:27:19] us to be [00:27:20] [00:27:21] so just dialed in [00:27:22] for everything [00:27:23] manufactured [00:27:24] housing,

Edward: I love, the [00:27:25] framing of [00:27:26] co-building. the whole [00:27:27] conversation right now, [00:27:28] not only about software but [00:27:29] especially around AI, [00:27:30] is build [00:27:31] versus buy. [00:27:32] And [00:27:33] now [00:27:34] building in-house [00:27:35] is, a lot [00:27:36] more cost [00:27:37] efficient or at least spinning [00:27:38] up, very [00:27:39] basic, [00:27:40] MVP. scaling that is a [00:27:41] whole different [00:27:42] topic [00:27:43] and, I think, uh, [00:27:44] vibe coding [00:27:45] is, the buzzword [00:27:46] of, a year and a half [00:27:47] ago or, or when, but [00:27:48] certainly, [00:27:49] larger owner [00:27:50] operators as well as [00:27:51] the tech providers [00:27:52] are understanding [00:27:53] that, unless we're doing [00:27:54] this together, [00:27:55] like you said, [00:27:56] designing the roadmap [00:27:57] together, uh, having [00:27:58] that feedback loop [00:27:59] established, like [00:28:00] it will be very hard [00:28:01] to, to partner, [00:28:02] to, and to work [00:28:03] together.

Rob: Uh, [00:28:04] 100%. And I think a big [00:28:05] part of it is, [00:28:06] the willingness to, I mean, [00:28:07] number one, to be [00:28:08] willing to do those [00:28:09] cycles. we don't [00:28:10] do a [00:28:11] Palantir-type model. Maybe [00:28:12] we should. We don't, like, [00:28:13] charge for services [00:28:14] of [00:28:15] embedding people. It's [00:28:16] part of making our [00:28:17] partners successful [00:28:18] and it just helps our [00:28:19] product get better.

[00:28:20] but, you know, one of the important things [00:28:21] is, the way we [00:28:22] architected our [00:28:23] platform is [00:28:24] very open and [00:28:25] configurable, and [00:28:26] so it's all [00:28:27] open API [00:28:28] read-write. Anything [00:28:29] you can see in the platform [00:28:30] except for some of, a [00:28:31] few page, like, a few [00:28:32] areas of the [00:28:33] settings are [00:28:34] accessible via [00:28:35] API, can be executed [00:28:36] outside of the platform.

[00:28:37] So, this really [00:28:38] resonates with a lot of [00:28:39] your [00:28:40] more enterprise [00:28:41] operators and [00:28:42] platforms, like your [00:28:43] PMSs, like your Manage [00:28:44] America and your, your big [00:28:45] players [00:28:46] as well, [00:28:47] and, being able to fit [00:28:48] within their existing [00:28:49] stack where [00:28:50] everyone's got a little bit of [00:28:51] some nuance. You know, you get over [00:28:52] a certain scale and [00:28:53] everyone's got a [00:28:54] special thing they do here [00:28:55] or there

Edward: [00:28:56] Yep, yep. [00:28:57] talking about, one of [00:28:58] your most [00:28:59] significant partnerships, [00:29:00] American Homes 4 [00:29:01] Rent. they operate [00:29:02] over [00:29:03] 60,000 single-family [00:29:04] homes across 24 [00:29:05] states. What does [00:29:06] a white label [00:29:07] relationship with a company [00:29:08] that size teach you [00:29:09] about the, the market [00:29:10] needs?

Rob: [00:29:11] Well, we originally [00:29:12] met them, on a [00:29:13] NRHC Shark [00:29:14] Tank, I'd met them [00:29:15] very briefly, [00:29:16] even just like the [00:29:17] day earlier, [00:29:18] but then I was doing this [00:29:19] pitch competition. [00:29:20] I didn't win. But I [00:29:21] think I won in the end. We got to [00:29:22] partner with them, so [00:29:23] which was great.

[00:29:24] cause, Bill Irby, their [00:29:25] CTO, was in [00:29:26] the [00:29:27] judges audience. it kind [00:29:28] of went from there. [00:29:29] Their [00:29:30] needs and where they were [00:29:31] at, they're publicly [00:29:32] traded, so I won't say too much, [00:29:33] but I will say that [00:29:34] they have a [00:29:35] capable technical [00:29:36] team. [00:29:37] Technical teams wanna [00:29:38] build, but [00:29:39] they have a huge roadmap.

[00:29:40] They've got a lot of stuff that they're [00:29:41] doing. they had some [00:29:42] custom stuff [00:29:43] already. They have [00:29:44] their, and you'll see this [00:29:45] on their website, it's [00:29:46] called Let Yourself In. It's [00:29:47] their own self-showing [00:29:48] solution. [00:29:49] And they were [00:29:50] actually in flight [00:29:51] of building [00:29:52] some things around [00:29:53] screening and leasing, [00:29:54] um, kind of similar to Manage [00:29:55] America, where we met them, [00:29:56] where they were like, "We're [00:29:57] actually building something.[00:29:58]

Maybe Boom [00:29:59] can be helpful, [00:30:00] because it looks like an open [00:30:01] platform." [00:30:02] we eventually realized, [00:30:03] like, their big [00:30:04] [00:30:05] requirements, [00:30:06] obviously table stake [00:30:07] stuff, [00:30:08] compliance, [00:30:09] enterprise [00:30:10] readiness, things like that. [00:30:11] Uh, good [00:30:12] data, great [00:30:13] underwriting, [00:30:14] capabilities, which [00:30:15] we've built in and really [00:30:16] sharpened over the last few [00:30:17] year- couple [00:30:18] years.

but [00:30:19] like many of these [00:30:20] scaled operators, [00:30:21] brand [00:30:22] and resident [00:30:23] experience was important. [00:30:24] And so what that [00:30:25] means is, and [00:30:26] fitting into their existing [00:30:27] stack, which they had some cu- [00:30:28] they had a custom touring [00:30:29] solution. [00:30:30] So some of these [00:30:31] bigger operators will [00:30:32] have [00:30:33] authenticated user [00:30:34] experiences 4 Rent has [00:30:35] MyAMH.

[00:30:36] You have a user [00:30:37] account that [00:30:38] sits on top of [00:30:39] their PMS, where [00:30:40] it's a, it's a [00:30:41] layer, and [00:30:42] [00:30:43] they already were [00:30:44] doing self-showing where they were [00:30:45] doing identity [00:30:46] verification. They were [00:30:47] logged into [00:30:48] MyAMH, and [00:30:49] they don't [00:30:50] want the [00:30:51] resident to then have to go [00:30:52] log into Boom, create [00:30:53] another account, [00:30:54] things like that.[00:30:55]

Go into a [00:30:56] separate link [00:30:57] out to another [00:30:58] solution. and [00:30:59] so, you know, we kind of [00:31:00] sketched it out with them, [00:31:01] had a number of, [00:31:02] couple, few [00:31:03] meetings, worked [00:31:04] internally, and we built [00:31:05] an embedded [00:31:06] applicant [00:31:07] experience that was [00:31:08] brandable, so it [00:31:09] could reuse the [00:31:10] identity [00:31:11] verification that was [00:31:12] surfaced, um, in the [00:31:13] touring and [00:31:14] the, the tour [00:31:15] experience.

So, what I [00:31:16] learned was they [00:31:17] want [00:31:18] brand control, [00:31:19] they want [00:31:20] to own the [00:31:21] resident experience, [00:31:22] they want [00:31:23] control of the data, [00:31:24] open API, like [00:31:25] everything needs to be accessible via [00:31:26] API, [00:31:27] and then you need all the [00:31:28] table stake stuff to check the [00:31:29] box, [00:31:30] obviously.

and then it [00:31:31] helps if you got a good [00:31:32] price and your team's, [00:31:33] they've got their own dev team, [00:31:34] but you know, it helps if we're [00:31:35] supplementing with, like [00:31:36] I said, dev [00:31:37] resources that they [00:31:38] get included [00:31:39] in this kind of [00:31:40] co-build model [00:31:41] that we try to do with our [00:31:42] our [00:31:43] partners

Edward: That's [00:31:44] awesome. So, I mean, [00:31:45] you've mentioned, Boom [00:31:46] Screen, Boom [00:31:47] Report, and [00:31:48] now you're coming [00:31:49] out with, Boom [00:31:50] CRM. So [00:31:51] what gap does [00:31:52] the Boom CRM [00:31:53] fill?

Rob: [00:31:54] we're live with Boom [00:31:55] CRM. It's [00:31:56] fantastic. It's our fastest growing [00:31:57] product, [00:31:58] probably because we can sell [00:31:59] into our existing base, [00:32:00] and we've got a lot of [00:32:01] goodwill and good word of [00:32:02] mouth that we [00:32:03] didn't really have when we were [00:32:04] getting Boom Screen off the [00:32:05] ground. [00:32:06] and what Boom [00:32:07] CRM is, [00:32:08] at a high level, [00:32:09] is [00:32:10] self showing [00:32:11] AI [00:32:12] automation and [00:32:13] syndication, auto [00:32:14] response, [00:32:15] omni-channel [00:32:16] inbox.

So [00:32:17] connect your Google account, [00:32:18] your Outlook account. You can [00:32:19] still send emails [00:32:20] directly from your existing email, [00:32:21] and it will link to the [00:32:22] prospect that you're communicating [00:32:23] with, full [00:32:24] visibility [00:32:25] across, your company, [00:32:26] if you go out of office, things [00:32:27] like that. [00:32:28] and then, [00:32:29] leads, [00:32:30] tasks, and then [00:32:31] flowing straight [00:32:32] into [00:32:33] the, applicant [00:32:34] journey.

undergirding [00:32:35] all of that [00:32:36] is, AI, but [00:32:37] then also deterministic [00:32:38] workflows [00:32:39] where agents can be [00:32:40] inserted.

it's [00:32:41] everything you would kind of [00:32:42] expect from a [00:32:43] modern leasing [00:32:44] experience. what we were [00:32:45] trying to do when we were [00:32:46] building it was [00:32:47] kind of leapfrog the [00:32:48] other stuff that was on the [00:32:49] market today.

[00:32:50] better product, [00:32:51] lower price, [00:32:52] use the latest LLMs. [00:32:53] You know, [00:32:54] we didn't build in [00:32:55] twenty eighteen and twenty [00:32:56] nineteen and have all this deterministic [00:32:57] chatbot [00:32:58] AI, AI, I would call it, [00:32:59] and have all that [00:33:00] legacy, and kinda [00:33:01] start from a [00:33:02] fresh, the [00:33:03] modern principles that we [00:33:04] would see in AI [00:33:05] today. The [00:33:06] gap that we were [00:33:07] filling is...

when [00:33:08] we launched Boom Screen, [00:33:09] again, it wasn't [00:33:10] because we, [00:33:11] decided, I mean, [00:33:12] like, this is, we need to do this, [00:33:13] obviously. [00:33:14] It was because we were [00:33:15] good at integrations, [00:33:16] and then our customers asked [00:33:17] us. As we [00:33:18] built Boom Screen, [00:33:19] we found [00:33:20] that, [00:33:21] the [00:33:22] points that we [00:33:23] were part of, we were [00:33:24] part of the problem.

[00:33:25] The [00:33:26] syndicated to [00:33:27] Zillow, you get an [00:33:28] inquiry response [00:33:29] via Zillow to your Zillow [00:33:30] inbox as a [00:33:31] resident, [00:33:32] then I'm getting [00:33:33] hit up by [00:33:34] a, a text [00:33:35] message from some [00:33:36] [00:33:37] CRM or [00:33:38] some, solution. [00:33:39] Then [00:33:40] I get into the [00:33:41] application experience, [00:33:42] which might be a [00:33:43] RentCafe or something like that, [00:33:44] then I get a link out [00:33:45] to the income [00:33:46] verification.

I'm getting now [00:33:47] reminders and [00:33:48] things through that identity [00:33:49] and income [00:33:50] verification. and so this whole thing [00:33:51] was, you could chalk it up [00:33:52] to four to [00:33:53] six [00:33:54] logins and emails and [00:33:55] communication channels that were [00:33:56] coming through, [00:33:57] and I, frankly, we were part [00:33:58] of that problem, we were [00:33:59] contributing to [00:34:00] that and our team, [00:34:01] our partners were saying, [00:34:02] "Look, we love Boom, [00:34:03] but we keep jumping into [00:34:04] this other tool and that other [00:34:05] tool. could we do [00:34:06] everything around leasing [00:34:07] in Boom?" [00:34:08] And you [00:34:09] can't just [00:34:10] do self [00:34:11] showing.

Well, to do self showing, [00:34:12] you kinda gotta do [00:34:13] the, the [00:34:14] listings experience. You [00:34:15] kinda have to do the [00:34:16] syndication, cause that's the [00:34:17] entry point. so that's [00:34:18] kinda where we went, I, [00:34:19] I think in [00:34:20] multifamily there's some scaled [00:34:21] players in there. [00:34:22] we tend to play more in [00:34:23] single-family and [00:34:24] manufactured housing [00:34:25] today.

we did build [00:34:26] this to try [00:34:27] to do better than [00:34:28] everything we saw on the [00:34:29] market. That [00:34:30] said, in manufactured [00:34:31] housing [00:34:32] and in single family, [00:34:33] there are significant [00:34:34] gaps in this [00:34:35] market, uh, where no [00:34:36] one has [00:34:37] really built a [00:34:38] comprehensive structure and a lot of, [00:34:39] uh, comprehensive [00:34:40] offering, and a lot of them are still [00:34:41] angled [00:34:42] more towards [00:34:43] multifamily.

[00:34:44] so we just kind of [00:34:45] followed our customers and [00:34:46] their requests, and [00:34:47] that's what we did.

Edward: [00:34:48] So [00:34:49] Yardi, RealPage, [00:34:50] [00:34:51] AppFolio, they sit [00:34:52] at the center of most [00:34:53] operators' tech [00:34:54] stacks. how does [00:34:55] Boom coexist with [00:34:56] them, and where does [00:34:57] that relationship go [00:34:58] over [00:34:59] time?

Rob: it's a great question. I [00:35:00] mean, it's what [00:35:01] any [00:35:02] VC is [00:35:03] asking probably about [00:35:04] and thinking about, and [00:35:05] It's like an [00:35:06] obvious story, right? [00:35:07] It's basically [00:35:08] ERP, [00:35:09] startup, startup [00:35:10] has a wedge [00:35:11] product. You're trying to expand [00:35:12] that service [00:35:13] area. [00:35:14] And [00:35:15] some startups [00:35:16] that are more [00:35:17] narrow and do this wedge [00:35:18] product are going [00:35:19] horizontal.

I won't name [00:35:20] names, but there are a few that, like, [00:35:21] we do income verification, we [00:35:22] do it for [00:35:23] rental, [00:35:24] auto, [00:35:25] home. Like, we're just good at income [00:35:26] verification, and we [00:35:27] wanna put this in [00:35:28] different verticals and [00:35:29] do that. That's not [00:35:30] what we're doing. We're [00:35:31] really focused on rentals. [00:35:32] That's our [00:35:33] ICP, and [00:35:34] primarily single-family [00:35:35] and manufactured [00:35:36] housing.

That's really all we [00:35:37] can [00:35:38] digest right now, [00:35:39] frankly. for the most [00:35:40] part, and I say, like, [00:35:41] that, that relationship [00:35:42] with the PMS is the [00:35:43] PMSs are getting told, "You [00:35:44] need to be more open." [00:35:45] and but they don't want to [00:35:46] be because a lot of [00:35:47] their revenue, [00:35:48] comes from ancillary [00:35:49] products that these [00:35:50] startups offer, right?

[00:35:51] And so there's this [00:35:52] push and pull. [00:35:53] PMSs [00:35:54] need to be open because their [00:35:55] clients are asking for it. [00:35:56] I think that's where [00:35:57] the wind is blowing, right? [00:35:58] If you look at Claude, [00:35:59] that's what we're doing [00:36:00] here, so I think that's, [00:36:01] that's where this is going. There are [00:36:02] a few PMSs [00:36:03] that are a bit more [00:36:04] open that are further [00:36:05] nudging the market [00:36:06] that way.

they need to [00:36:07] integrate. to, I think they will [00:36:08] have [00:36:09] to. They don't have to make every [00:36:10] part of the API [00:36:11] accessible, and we are blocked [00:36:12] on some of them, and there are [00:36:13] workarounds. [00:36:14] With AI, it's [00:36:15] inevitable that this [00:36:16] is just gonna end up [00:36:17] being open.

but [00:36:18] there... We, we'd love to [00:36:19] do things the right way [00:36:20] and, pay for [00:36:21] it, and we do pay [00:36:22] handsomely to [00:36:23] several of the PMSs [00:36:24] for that [00:36:25] access. where does it end [00:36:26] up? And that's [00:36:27] anyone's guess, but there's this [00:36:28] push and pull, and it's [00:36:29] a, competitive [00:36:30] marketplace.

Edward: [00:36:31] And we'll stay tuned to see [00:36:32] how, that develops [00:36:33] and unfolds. [00:36:34] last but not least, [00:36:35] Rob, collaboration [00:36:36] superpower. If you [00:36:37] could partner with one [00:36:38] person, [00:36:39] historic or living, [00:36:40] real or [00:36:41] fictional, who would it [00:36:42] be?

Rob: [00:36:43] This is not a question I [00:36:44] think about very [00:36:45] often. We've got [00:36:46] a great team. I always [00:36:47] like, I like working with [00:36:48] them. If I had to just [00:36:49] throw something [00:36:50] out. I got [00:36:51] really, interested, the Spotify, I don't know if you've seen [00:36:52] the [00:36:53] Spotify [00:36:54] movie.

Edward: Nope, [00:36:55] the

Rob: there's a movie, yeah, [00:36:56] it's on, Netflix, [00:36:57] but it

was

Edward: [00:36:58] Playlist: The Biographical [00:36:59] Drama Series

Rob: [00:37:00] right. It's great. [00:37:01] And [00:37:02] the guy is just, I [00:37:03] mean, he's going up against [00:37:04] a lot of, [00:37:05] obviously going up [00:37:06] against [00:37:07] Apple and, a, it's a great [00:37:08] story. [00:37:09] I like people like that. [00:37:10] I don't know if I've, [00:37:11] I don't know much about [00:37:12] him or

Edward: [00:37:13] Daniel Ek? Is that [00:37:14] what

we're talking about, Daniel [00:37:15] Ek

Rob: yeah, [00:37:16] exactly. some pe- [00:37:17] people like that. [00:37:18] people that are [00:37:19] hardheaded, y- hard [00:37:20] driving, probably would be [00:37:21] end up being someone [00:37:22] technical probably just [00:37:23] because I'm not [00:37:24] technical.

Edward: Big, big [00:37:25] fan of Daniel Ek as [00:37:26] well. I [00:37:27] recommend anyone [00:37:28] interested in [00:37:29] entrepreneurship or in tech or [00:37:30] in even real [00:37:31] estate, to listen to any [00:37:32] podcast that he's been [00:37:33] on. He's [00:37:34] doing so many more [00:37:35] things beyond P- [00:37:36] Spotify [00:37:37] nowadays. [00:37:38] yeah, like he's [00:37:39] doing longevity [00:37:40] healthcare, [00:37:41] And also the, the, uh, [00:37:42] with all due respect [00:37:43] to our, our [00:37:44] fellow [00:37:45] Swedes and, and [00:37:46] Europeans, and I'm the [00:37:47] biggest fan of, of the [00:37:48] continent and most [00:37:49] countries, building [00:37:50] a [00:37:51] multi-billion dollar [00:37:52] tech company in [00:37:53] Europe, , it's, uh, [00:37:54] not that easy. [00:37:55] So,

Rob: [00:37:56] super hard. Yeah. [00:37:57] I can't even [00:37:58] imagine. even being in Austin [00:37:59] even, I would just say, [00:38:00] like, I love Austin. [00:38:01] It is a bit more - [00:38:02] family-friendly. more [00:38:03] work-life balance than I would [00:38:04] say New York or San [00:38:05] Francisco, right? It's just the way it [00:38:06] is.

so I, I can't even [00:38:07] imagine what it's like in [00:38:08] Europe. Can't be that [00:38:09] intense I, I would [00:38:10] imagine. [00:38:11] Rob, where [00:38:12] can [00:38:13] Tangent listeners [00:38:14] and [00:38:15] single-family [00:38:16] rental [00:38:17] owners and operators [00:38:18] and manufactured home [00:38:19] owner-operators [00:38:20] learn more about [00:38:21] BOOM and connect [00:38:22] with you?

So our [00:38:23] website's [00:38:24] [00:38:25] boompay.app [00:38:26] app, my email is [00:38:27] just [00:38:28] rob@boompay.app, so you can [00:38:29] always email me.

Edward: [00:38:30] Today we [00:38:31] covered a lot of ground on [00:38:32] where rental housing [00:38:33] is headed and the [00:38:34] gaps that still exist [00:38:35] underneath it. We [00:38:36] started with the Road [00:38:37] to Housing Act, [00:38:38] what it changes [00:38:39] for institutional [00:38:40] owners, what the [00:38:41] exemption paths [00:38:42] mean, before next [00:38:43] year, and the [00:38:44] potential implications for [00:38:45] developers and tech [00:38:46] companies.

[00:38:47] We also got into [00:38:48] why screening [00:38:49] is harder than it [00:38:50] looks, , why a [00:38:51] database match isn't the [00:38:52] same as verifying [00:38:53] an identity, [00:38:54] and we talked about what it [00:38:55] looks like to build a [00:38:56] financial layer [00:38:57] underneath 46 [00:38:58] million renter [00:38:59] households when the [00:39:00] incumbents weren't [00:39:01] built to do it.[00:39:02]

Rob, [00:39:03] thank you so much for [00:39:04] coming to Tanyan today and [00:39:05] sharing your [00:39:06] insights and your exciting [00:39:07] company with us.[00:39:08]

Rob: Thanks so much, Edward

[00:39:09] [00:39:10] [00:39:11] [00:39:12] [00:39:13] Muchas [00:39:14] gracias. If you [00:39:15] learn something new [00:39:16] or enjoy the [00:39:17] conversation. [00:39:18] Text a friend the link to [00:39:19] this episode right [00:39:20] now.

[00:39:21] You can [00:39:22] find links, [00:39:23] resources, and ways to [00:39:24] connect with us in [00:39:25] the show notes [00:39:26] [00:39:27] [00:39:28] [00:39:29] [00:39:30]