Raj Auphonic
===

[00:00:00] Hi, I'm Edward [00:00:01] Cohen, and this is [00:00:02] Tangent, a Commercial [00:00:03] Observer podcast, [00:00:04] coming to you live from [00:00:05] CREtech New York at [00:00:06] the Javits Center, [00:00:07] [00:00:08] [00:00:09] [00:00:10] [00:00:11] Commercial [00:00:12] real estate acquisition [00:00:13] teams are [00:00:14] drowning in broker [00:00:15] emails, and the [00:00:16] best deals are [00:00:17] buried somewhere in their [00:00:18] inbox.

[00:00:19] Most firms are still [00:00:20] sorting through them [00:00:21] manually [00:00:22] Our guest [00:00:23] today is Raj [00:00:24] Singh, CEO [00:00:25] of Alltreo. [00:00:26] [00:00:27] [00:00:28] Raj, how [00:00:29] is New York City Real Estate [00:00:30] Week treating you? [00:00:31] so far so [00:00:32] good. Really mostly here [00:00:33] just for the, the [00:00:34] CREtech conference. I [00:00:35] understand there are some other events [00:00:36] happening as well, but, [00:00:37] uh, our [00:00:38] focus is on, on this [00:00:39] one and, and so far it's, [00:00:40] uh, it's been a good day.

[00:00:41] [00:00:42] So Raj, let's [00:00:43] jump right into it. [00:00:44] Acquisition teams at [00:00:45] real estate investment firms [00:00:46] are some of the most [00:00:47] data-driven [00:00:48] professionals in the [00:00:49] industry, [00:00:50] yet a lot of them are still [00:00:51] managing deal [00:00:52] flow in Excel [00:00:53] and sorting through [00:00:54] broker emails [00:00:55] manually. [00:00:56] So tell us [00:00:57] how Alltreo [00:00:58] is working [00:00:59] with folks like [00:01:00] these and what you're [00:01:01] building.[00:01:02]

Yeah, we've always been [00:01:03] very focused [00:01:04] on trying to solve this [00:01:05] problem. I mean, the [00:01:06] industry is [00:01:07] famously [00:01:08] decentralized, right? [00:01:09] It's very fragmented, [00:01:10] very opaque. [00:01:11] Uh, if you're a [00:01:12] real estate investor or [00:01:13] lender, [00:01:14] obviously your goal [00:01:15] is to [00:01:16] construct a [00:01:17] great portfolio, [00:01:18] and that means [00:01:19] doing great [00:01:20] transactions, and that [00:01:21] means actually [00:01:22] sourcing these [00:01:23] transactions, which, you know, [00:01:24] unlike in other asset [00:01:25] classes where there's [00:01:26] greater transparency, [00:01:27] you can log into [00:01:28] a Bloomberg terminal, [00:01:29] or you've got access to s- [00:01:30] you know, something a little bit [00:01:31] more, more [00:01:32] digital.

In real [00:01:33] estate, it really [00:01:34] hasn't changed [00:01:35] since [00:01:36] brokers stopped sending [00:01:37] out envelopes [00:01:38] and started emailing [00:01:39] OMs digitally [00:01:40] instead, right? It's still [00:01:41] very much about who [00:01:42] you know. A lot of the [00:01:43] time real estate [00:01:44] investors [00:01:45] spend [00:01:46] is spent on, [00:01:47] reaching out to brokers to [00:01:48] remind them that they're still, [00:01:49] still there and [00:01:50] sort of remind them what deals they're [00:01:51] looking for, or they're [00:01:52] going to [00:01:53] conferences, or they're [00:01:54] searching different online [00:01:55] listing sites, [00:01:56] and it's, it's [00:01:57] very inefficient.

[00:01:58] And all of these [00:01:59] investors, they sort of live [00:02:00] in fear [00:02:01] of missing the [00:02:02] next great [00:02:03] deal that could be like [00:02:04] a really great add for their [00:02:05] portfolio. Mm-hmm. [00:02:06] So we've always, always been [00:02:07] very focused on of [00:02:08] solving that problem. [00:02:09] For years now, [00:02:10] we've [00:02:11] been [00:02:12] automating, the process [00:02:13] of sorting [00:02:14] through inbound [00:02:15] deal flow.

So [00:02:16] just to give you some of the [00:02:17] details. Mm-hmm. Our [00:02:18] customers for years have been [00:02:19] essentially forwarding [00:02:20] broker emails, [00:02:21] uploading OMs, [00:02:22] brochures, et cetera, [00:02:23] and we've been [00:02:24] using AI actually [00:02:25] since, you know, long before [00:02:26] AI became quite as popular [00:02:27] as it is now. We've been doing this [00:02:28] for almost ten years to [00:02:29] sort of pull the key [00:02:30] details out of these [00:02:31] documents and [00:02:32] present all of the [00:02:33] opportunities from sort of a [00:02:34] common apples to [00:02:35] apples kind of easy [00:02:36] way to sort of sort through the good [00:02:37] from the bad.[00:02:38]

What [00:02:39] AI's allowed us to do [00:02:40] is take that to the next [00:02:41] level. Earlier this [00:02:42] year, we [00:02:43] released an [00:02:44] inbox agent [00:02:45] that can actually [00:02:46] connect directly [00:02:47] into our users' email [00:02:48] inboxes, [00:02:49] find broker [00:02:50] emails, whether they're [00:02:51] broker blasts or [00:02:52] update emails, you know, [00:02:53] revising the guidance [00:02:54] price or the bid date, et [00:02:55] cetera.

Mm-hmm. [00:02:56] Automatically [00:02:57] create deals in their [00:02:58] pipeline based on those [00:02:59] emails, update them [00:03:00] based on the updated [00:03:01] information that's coming in, [00:03:02] removing really all the [00:03:03] friction. [00:03:04] And what that really allows [00:03:05] real estate investors to [00:03:06] do is to [00:03:07] cast a wider net. [00:03:08] previously A [00:03:09] lot of investors would've [00:03:10] been reluctant to [00:03:11] sort of, go out and [00:03:12] invite more deal flow [00:03:13] 'cause they'd be worried [00:03:14] that they'd drown in the [00:03:15] volume and they'd end up [00:03:16] missing the next great [00:03:17] deal.

Kind of needle in the [00:03:18] haystack. The more you sort of [00:03:19] try to, to [00:03:20] increase top of the funnel, the [00:03:21] more likely you're gonna get a lot of [00:03:22] stuff that doesn't fit. [00:03:23] By using [00:03:24] AI [00:03:25] to [00:03:26] completely automate that [00:03:27] initial [00:03:28] ingestion and [00:03:29] screening step, [00:03:30] real estate folks [00:03:31] really have no [00:03:32] reason not to try to [00:03:33] see as many deals as they [00:03:34] possibly can because the [00:03:35] time it takes to screen [00:03:36] those has gone to [00:03:37] zero.

So more [00:03:38] recently, we've actually, [00:03:39] just announcing it this [00:03:40] week, we've [00:03:41] released a sourcing [00:03:42] agent- Hmm ... [00:03:43] which [00:03:44] actually goes out [00:03:45] every night [00:03:46] to dozens of [00:03:47] brokerage sites, [00:03:48] basically scans [00:03:49] thousands of listings, [00:03:50] looks for new [00:03:51] listings, updated [00:03:52] listings, and anything [00:03:53] that's found that matches [00:03:54] our customer's [00:03:55] investment criteria [00:03:56] are [00:03:57] automatically pulled down and [00:03:58] actually injected into the top [00:03:59] of their funnel.[00:04:00]

So [00:04:01] really [00:04:02] creates a single [00:04:03] place now where our [00:04:04] users can see [00:04:05] the deals [00:04:06] brokers have sent them via [00:04:07] email and the [00:04:08] deals that are [00:04:09] listed online [00:04:10] without having to really [00:04:11] do anything, [00:04:12] but just- Fascinating ... just turn [00:04:13] it on, right? Yeah. [00:04:14] So we're getting [00:04:15] close to finally [00:04:16] actually solving the [00:04:17] sourcing problem [00:04:18] that's, uh, plagued investors [00:04:19] for a long time.

Just [00:04:20] turning it on, you know? It [00:04:21] sounds, sounds [00:04:22] like the dream. That's [00:04:23] what a real estate, [00:04:24] uh, investor would want, [00:04:25] right? They- It's, it's the [00:04:26] easy button ... they wanna [00:04:27] focus on, on [00:04:28] their job, They don't wanna [00:04:29] focus on the [00:04:30] unsexy part in this [00:04:31] case that actually [00:04:32] doesn't bring them [00:04:33] more money or better [00:04:34] deals.[00:04:35]

You're [00:04:36] helping all these teams [00:04:37] save time. [00:04:38] Are you seeing that [00:04:39] the, the saved time [00:04:40] is now translating to [00:04:41] them [00:04:42] looking more [00:04:43] in depth at the [00:04:44] good deals that they [00:04:45] want, or just being [00:04:46] able to look at more [00:04:47] deals in general? [00:04:48] A- and maybe this is [00:04:49] too early, but just in [00:04:50] terms of h- what you're [00:04:51] seeing or how are you [00:04:52] envisioning [00:04:53] this saved [00:04:54] time be [00:04:55] reallocated by these [00:04:56] teams?

[00:04:57] Inevitably, you're gonna [00:04:58] have the ability to look [00:04:59] at more [00:05:00] opportunities, right? You're gonna have [00:05:01] a wider net that [00:05:02] you're able to cast, [00:05:03] and the time you [00:05:04] get back is going to [00:05:05] allow you to [00:05:06] not necessarily [00:05:07] spend more [00:05:08] time looking at the [00:05:09] deals, sort of doing deeper [00:05:10] analysis, but allow you to [00:05:11] move more quickly, [00:05:12] right?

The time [00:05:13] you, you get [00:05:14] back will potentially [00:05:15] put you in pole position [00:05:16] ahead of, you know, your [00:05:17] competition, getting, being able to get [00:05:18] back to the broker with [00:05:19] a, with an offer [00:05:20] earlier. The real estate [00:05:21] market is [00:05:22] not in the best [00:05:23] shape it's been in ever right [00:05:24] now, but you know, there are [00:05:25] still competitive [00:05:26] pockets there's still a lot of [00:05:27] capital out there chasing the [00:05:28] best opportunities, [00:05:29] and [00:05:30] any advantage your team [00:05:31] can get by [00:05:32] leveraging software to [00:05:33] automate, you know, [00:05:34] some of the lower value [00:05:35] add steps [00:05:36] just gives you more time to [00:05:37] focus on the things that really [00:05:38] do move the needle and [00:05:39] help your overall [00:05:40] competitive positioning.

[00:05:41] But really the, the [00:05:42] time saved is only [00:05:43] one element of it. [00:05:44] It's [00:05:45] the [00:05:46] avoidance of just [00:05:47] missing the [00:05:48] opportunity that you would oth- [00:05:49] You know, we've seen really [00:05:50] silly things. We've seen [00:05:51] deals just end up in people's [00:05:52] spam folders. [00:05:53] As the operator [00:05:54] of a [00:05:55] platform that's used by, [00:05:56] you know, a lot of real [00:05:57] estate investors, [00:05:58] and brokers, we're able [00:05:59] to sort of [00:06:00] see the deal flow almost [00:06:01] in real time.

We can [00:06:02] see the deals that brokers are [00:06:03] listing, we can see the [00:06:04] deals that investors are looking [00:06:05] at, and [00:06:06] we can see how [00:06:07] inefficient the [00:06:08] market is, right? [00:06:09] Brokers are sending [00:06:10] deals often to the wrong [00:06:11] people, very often, [00:06:12] right? You know, your [00:06:13] industrial deals [00:06:14] getting sent to multifamily [00:06:15] investors, et cetera.

Mm-hmm. [00:06:16] And at the same time, [00:06:17] we can see on our [00:06:18] platform that there are deals that [00:06:19] actually fit [00:06:20] in the buy boxes [00:06:21] of some of our customers [00:06:22] that they're just not getting [00:06:23] because those [00:06:24] relationships aren't there. They don't [00:06:25] know the brokers. Brokers don't [00:06:26] know them. [00:06:27] So, you know, we think [00:06:28] the time saving is [00:06:29] great, but just [00:06:30] connecting [00:06:31] capital to [00:06:32] opportunities, connecting buyer to [00:06:33] seller is where we [00:06:34] think there's a, a [00:06:35] much bigger opportunity just [00:06:36] around making it [00:06:37] possible to do these [00:06:38] transactions at [00:06:39] all, right?

Because [00:06:40] you can't do a deal you didn't [00:06:41] know existed. You can't bid on [00:06:42] a, a property you [00:06:43] didn't know was in the market. [00:06:44] Nope. Right? [00:06:45] Spam folder [00:06:46] missed deal. [00:06:47] Ouch. Oh, yeah. [00:06:48] No, there, there have been a lot [00:06:49] of ouches. [00:06:50] [00:06:51] Talking about [00:06:52] competition [00:06:53] and talking about [00:06:54] staying ahead, and [00:06:55] every other week it [00:06:56] seems like- [00:06:57] Anthropic's [00:06:58] model is the, [00:06:59] the best one according to the [00:07:00] benchmarks, and the next [00:07:01] week it's OpenAI, and [00:07:02] the next, you know, it [00:07:03] now open weight [00:07:04] models and open source [00:07:05] are really [00:07:06] being, uh, [00:07:07] threatening, if you [00:07:08] will, the closed [00:07:09] ecosystem LLMs that we [00:07:10] have.

But [00:07:11] from your side, [00:07:12] how do you stay [00:07:13] ahead in terms of, [00:07:14] like, this week [00:07:15] you launched a [00:07:16] almighty [00:07:17] powerful deal [00:07:18] sourcing [00:07:19] agent. Sounds [00:07:20] super exciting. [00:07:21] Next week, [00:07:22] something new comes up. A- [00:07:23] and you've been doing this since [00:07:24] before it was cool, [00:07:25] right? Since you... Before it [00:07:26] was a buzzword to do [00:07:27] AI in real estate, [00:07:28] uh, which I think brings [00:07:29] a lot of [00:07:30] credibility, in what you're doing.[00:07:31]

But how do you [00:07:32] differentiate [00:07:33] yourself ultimately [00:07:34] from all the [00:07:35] solutions out there, or [00:07:36] even from the [00:07:37] generalist LLMs? [00:07:38] So [00:07:39] what's new [00:07:40] today with these [00:07:41] technologies that have come [00:07:42] out that... It, it's the [00:07:43] speed, right? [00:07:44] You're able to [00:07:45] build things [00:07:46] much more [00:07:47] quickly and take [00:07:48] things to market much [00:07:49] more quickly.[00:07:50]

Not even in [00:07:51] terms of just the actual [00:07:52] software build, but even [00:07:53] building all [00:07:54] the marketing [00:07:55] collateral and the [00:07:56] onboarding material. You can just [00:07:57] move more [00:07:58] quickly across the [00:07:59] board. Mm-hmm. So [00:08:00] that's the part that's [00:08:01] new, and it [00:08:02] raises the bar, right? It [00:08:03] forces people at [00:08:04] our company and others [00:08:05] to, to really sort of [00:08:06] stay on your [00:08:07] toes.

You've got to keep [00:08:08] the intensity up, [00:08:09] right? Because you know that [00:08:10] it's now [00:08:11] possible for your competition to [00:08:12] move much more quickly as [00:08:13] well. [00:08:14] But [00:08:15] that's a, a rising [00:08:16] tide lifting [00:08:17] all boats, [00:08:18] right? Everyone can move more [00:08:19] quickly. [00:08:20] There's still gonna be [00:08:21] comparative advantage [00:08:22] between firms, [00:08:23] and [00:08:24] our view is that the [00:08:25] biggest comparative advantage [00:08:26] is customer [00:08:27] insights.

It's always been the [00:08:28] case. If you stay [00:08:29] close to your [00:08:30] customers, you keep your [00:08:31] ear to the ground, you [00:08:32] understand what their pain points are, [00:08:33] you understand what their goals [00:08:34] are, and their goals are [00:08:35] changing very quickly now as well [00:08:36] with, all these changes [00:08:37] in, in the tech [00:08:38] landscape. [00:08:39] But if [00:08:40] you stay [00:08:41] committed to [00:08:42] evolving and [00:08:43] adapting with your [00:08:44] customers [00:08:45] and just [00:08:46] making the right decisions [00:08:47] around what you [00:08:48] build [00:08:49] and, you know, how you [00:08:50] support those products you [00:08:51] build, how you take them to [00:08:52] market, how you implement them, et [00:08:53] cetera, that will [00:08:54] remain, we [00:08:55] believe [00:08:56] The primary source of [00:08:57] advantage, right?

So [00:08:58] everyone's gonna move [00:08:59] quicker, but [00:09:00] the [00:09:01] quality of the decisions you're [00:09:02] making still matter, [00:09:03] and the quality of [00:09:04] the decisions [00:09:05] ultimately stem from how well you [00:09:06] understand [00:09:07] the market and the customers [00:09:08] you serve. [00:09:09] [00:09:10] Fascinating, fast [00:09:11] evolving [00:09:12] landscape that we live in. [00:09:13] Let's talk [00:09:14] about the macro [00:09:15] and how it's affecting [00:09:16] some of your [00:09:17] clients, if at all.

But [00:09:18] real estate private [00:09:19] equity is, is going through [00:09:20] a, a rough patch, [00:09:21] if you can call it that. [00:09:22] Private real estate [00:09:23] fundraising [00:09:24] hit its lowest [00:09:25] quarterly level [00:09:26] since [00:09:27] 2013- Yeah ... this past [00:09:28] summer. A lot of [00:09:29] competition for capital out [00:09:30] there. A lot of [00:09:31] competition. Capital is [00:09:32] more expensive than [00:09:33] what it used to be when, uh, [00:09:34] interest rates were near [00:09:35] zero.

I mean, we've [00:09:36] had EQT [00:09:37] just acquiring [00:09:38] Stockbridge, a [00:09:39] 20-year-old [00:09:40] manager with over [00:09:41] $16 billion [00:09:42] in assets under [00:09:43] management. It got [00:09:44] acquired for just over [00:09:45] half a billion dollars. [00:09:46] [00:09:47] So for a firm [00:09:48] sitting in the [00:09:49] middle of all of [00:09:50] this, how does that change your [00:09:51] approach in terms [00:09:52] of what their [00:09:53] needs are? [00:09:54] Or [00:09:55] how do you take advantage of [00:09:56] this consolidation to [00:09:57] bring even more value [00:09:58] to the survivors, [00:09:59] if you will?[00:10:00]

So there's no [00:10:01] way to [00:10:02] spin or [00:10:03] avoid talking about [00:10:04] the fact that there [00:10:05] are some, like, major [00:10:06] headwinds in the [00:10:07] industry. The [00:10:08] cost of capital [00:10:09] has always [00:10:10] been [00:10:11] paramount. the growth [00:10:12] of the real estate investment [00:10:13] management industry over the last [00:10:14] 20 years was really [00:10:15] tied to the fact that [00:10:16] interest rates were [00:10:17] at all-time [00:10:18] lows for a really long [00:10:19] time.

And [00:10:20] as an asset [00:10:21] class, it was just more [00:10:22] attractive than a lot of [00:10:23] alternative asset classes, right? [00:10:24] Today, obviously, with [00:10:25] interest rates where they are [00:10:26] and the [00:10:27] demand for [00:10:28] capital coming from [00:10:29] AI, [00:10:30] the bar is just gonna be [00:10:31] higher. The number, [00:10:32] the sheer number [00:10:33] of real estate [00:10:34] investments that are gonna actually [00:10:35] produce an attractive [00:10:36] return, [00:10:37] there are just fewer of [00:10:38] them, right?

[00:10:39] Which means [00:10:40] [00:10:41] Overall, the [00:10:42] industry will probably [00:10:43] get [00:10:44] smaller. There will [00:10:45] still be firms [00:10:46] out there, [00:10:47] making great [00:10:48] investments, developing [00:10:49] great properties, [00:10:50] operating properties really [00:10:51] well, and, and creating [00:10:52] profits. [00:10:53] And [00:10:54] we're gonna be there to [00:10:55] support them, to serve [00:10:56] them. [00:10:57] But again, there's, [00:10:58] there's really no way [00:10:59] to, get around or [00:11:00] spin the fact that [00:11:01] real estate as an [00:11:02] asset class [00:11:03] is [00:11:04] strictly based [00:11:05] on where interest rates are [00:11:06] going to [00:11:07] be less [00:11:08] competitive than some [00:11:09] other asset classes, [00:11:10] right?

So there will be [00:11:11] consolidation, there'll be fewer [00:11:12] players, [00:11:13] and, uh, yeah, that's a [00:11:14] headwind for us. [00:11:15] But the industry [00:11:16] might be getting smaller. It's still [00:11:17] a massive industry. [00:11:18] Real estate is still a [00:11:19] massive industry. [00:11:20] It's famously [00:11:21] cyclical. There definitely have [00:11:22] been ups and [00:11:23] downs, you know, many of them over [00:11:24] the years.

[00:11:25] And if [00:11:26] interest rates started [00:11:27] heading downward again, guess [00:11:28] what? This industry would grow [00:11:29] again because [00:11:30] it is very much [00:11:31] tied to, uh, to those [00:11:32] interest rates. So, the [00:11:33] industry's been around for a long [00:11:34] time. We're here for the [00:11:35] ups and downs. We're [00:11:36] gonna stay focused on, on [00:11:37] serving our customers. [00:11:38] Spot on.

I think, I [00:11:39] mean, certainly the, [00:11:40] the, the macro [00:11:41] environment, which you [00:11:42] correctly pointed out, it's always been [00:11:43] tied to commercial [00:11:44] real estate [00:11:45] success or otherwise. [00:11:46] It certainly made a lot [00:11:47] of people [00:11:48] look really [00:11:49] smart in the last twenty [00:11:50] years, [00:11:51] and a lot of them probably [00:11:52] are. A lot of them [00:11:53] were lucky. But [00:11:54] maybe it also attracted [00:11:55] certain [00:11:56] player, the, the [00:11:57] speculator, if you will, or the [00:11:58] one that wasn't in it for [00:11:59] the long run that, [00:12:00] you know, maybe wanted to make a [00:12:01] quick buck here and there.

So [00:12:02] I think there are [00:12:03] positives to [00:12:04] this, uh, [00:12:05] recalibration that we're going [00:12:06] repricing, if you [00:12:07] will. A lot [00:12:08] of pain, a lot of [00:12:09] pain out there. [00:12:10] Assets that were worth [00:12:11] double, [00:12:12] triple, even more [00:12:13] just a couple years ago are [00:12:14] not worth that [00:12:15] anymore. Mm-hmm. And they probably [00:12:16] won't be back [00:12:17] at those valuations [00:12:18] anytime soon.

[00:12:19] And I think that reality [00:12:20] has set in. [00:12:21] Just last week, [00:12:22] a [00:12:23] massive [00:12:24] sophisticated hedge fund like Two [00:12:25] Sigma [00:12:26] halted [00:12:27] fundraising for its [00:12:28] real estate unit [00:12:29] after raising [00:12:30] less than half of [00:12:31] its two billion dollar [00:12:32] target. Sure. [00:12:33] So I [00:12:34] think we're gonna have, [00:12:35] like you said, probably less [00:12:36] players, but maybe [00:12:37] [00:12:38] Better capitalized [00:12:39] players and, the [00:12:40] more sophisticated [00:12:41] players will ultimately, with the [00:12:42] better technologies, will [00:12:43] survive Yeah, [00:12:44] absolutely.

[00:12:45] Absolutely. When you have, a [00:12:46] situation like we're seeing [00:12:47] where there is [00:12:48] consolidation, [00:12:49] where only the [00:12:50] best can make it through, [00:12:51] right? It's, you know, it's [00:12:52] Darwinian [00:12:53] pressure on the whole [00:12:54] industry. The best [00:12:55] companies [00:12:56] come out of times like [00:12:57] this, [00:12:58] and times like this [00:12:59] make good [00:13:00] companies [00:13:01] better. If you're [00:13:02] really not, you [00:13:03] know, if you're over- [00:13:04] [00:13:05] overcapitalized or, you're not [00:13:06] really run [00:13:07] very efficiently, then [00:13:08] you may be one of the companies that [00:13:09] doesn't make it through.

[00:13:10] But, you know, the [00:13:11] companies that do make it through always [00:13:12] come out of these things [00:13:13] stronger. And [00:13:14] sort of this is where you get [00:13:15] your sort of long [00:13:16] generational [00:13:17] success stories [00:13:18] is through these pressure [00:13:19] moments where you're [00:13:20] really sort of forced [00:13:21] to, uh, get your [00:13:22] fundamentals right Hundred [00:13:23] percent. [00:13:24] What do you think is [00:13:25] overhyped [00:13:26] right now for [00:13:27] AI in commercial real [00:13:28] estate and what [00:13:29] is underrated?[00:13:30]

That's a great [00:13:31] question. I'm not sure [00:13:32] if this is [00:13:33] changing. I feel like it probably [00:13:34] is. These questions, [00:13:35] the answer almost [00:13:36] changes weekly. [00:13:37] Things are moving so [00:13:38] quickly right now. There [00:13:39] was a bit of a [00:13:40] trend, maybe there [00:13:41] still is, [00:13:42] a little while [00:13:43] ago, [00:13:44] around [00:13:45] specializing [00:13:46] AI models [00:13:47] for different [00:13:48] applications, right?

So [00:13:49] generating an [00:13:50] OM using [00:13:51] AI, for example, [00:13:52] [00:13:53] underwriting [00:13:54] property, extracting a [00:13:55] lease document, [00:13:56] whatever the case may [00:13:57] be. These [00:13:58] little [00:13:59] very specific [00:14:00] [00:14:01] AI-powered solutions [00:14:02] were popping up, [00:14:03] and they were actually they were, [00:14:04] they were getting [00:14:05] funded by venture [00:14:06] capitalists. They were, you know, [00:14:07] signing pilot [00:14:08] agreements with big, [00:14:09] very well-known [00:14:10] real estate [00:14:11] companies.

And, you know, there was a lot of [00:14:12] buzz around them. I [00:14:13] feel like we're already starting to [00:14:14] see that [00:14:15] fizzle out. I [00:14:16] think, uh, [00:14:17] folks [00:14:18] are starting [00:14:19] to realize [00:14:20] that [00:14:21] AI really [00:14:22] isn't a tool. [00:14:23] You [00:14:24] really shouldn't be looking to [00:14:25] buy an [00:14:26] AI solution. [00:14:27] [00:14:28] AI is, [00:14:29] it's an agent, right? [00:14:30] It's a teammate. [00:14:31] It's, uh, it's an [00:14:32] employee, [00:14:33] and it works [00:14:34] beside you in your [00:14:35] organization, and [00:14:36] it uses [00:14:37] tools.[00:14:38]

So [00:14:39] if a, a company [00:14:40] out there is, is sort [00:14:41] of selling an [00:14:42] AI [00:14:43] tool and they, and they [00:14:44] like, you know- [00:14:45] AI generation for [00:14:46] X, whatever that happens [00:14:47] to be. I think [00:14:48] there's probably not a lot of [00:14:49] future in that sort [00:14:50] of solution, [00:14:51] because [00:14:52] those [00:14:53] solutions [00:14:54] inevitably are just acting [00:14:55] on [00:14:56] data or [00:14:57] using [00:14:58] tools like the ability to [00:14:59] generate a [00:15:00] PowerPoint, for example, or a [00:15:01] PDF, or the ability [00:15:02] to do web [00:15:03] research, whatever it is, [00:15:04] right?

But [00:15:05] the generic [00:15:06] solutions out there, [00:15:07] you know, the Claude [00:15:08] Coworks and [00:15:09] ChatGPTs of the [00:15:10] world, [00:15:11] they can use all [00:15:12] the same tools, [00:15:13] and [00:15:14] with [00:15:15] every new version of [00:15:16] the model, [00:15:17] they become [00:15:18] as [00:15:19] good at or better [00:15:20] than all of the sort [00:15:21] of specialized [00:15:22] applications [00:15:23] that people were [00:15:24] previously kind of building [00:15:25] as these kind of [00:15:26] one-off [00:15:27] offerings.

So for [00:15:28] example, [00:15:29] today you might [00:15:30] have a, an [00:15:31] AI [00:15:32] tool that [00:15:33] generates X [00:15:34] using Y [00:15:35] data. Well, [00:15:36] tomorrow Claude is gonna be able to [00:15:37] do that by [00:15:38] itself. And this is [00:15:39] kind of our house view at [00:15:40] Altria as well, [00:15:41] is [00:15:42] AI features [00:15:43] and AI [00:15:44] tools I think are [00:15:45] all going [00:15:46] to, or a lot of them are gonna [00:15:47] fizzle out very [00:15:48] quickly as people [00:15:49] realize [00:15:50] that it's actually [00:15:51] a, a [00:15:52] colleague, it's a user, it's [00:15:53] not a s- it's not a [00:15:54] tool.

And [00:15:55] [00:15:56] Inevitably, you're [00:15:57] gonna want [00:15:58] the [00:15:59] same agent [00:16:00] to work [00:16:01] with and [00:16:02] use a [00:16:03] whole suite of [00:16:04] tools and a whole set of [00:16:05] data, not [00:16:06] be sort of tethered [00:16:07] to or embedded in [00:16:08] any one tool [00:16:09] or one set of data. [00:16:10] And I think the [00:16:11] market is gonna [00:16:12] largely coalesce, [00:16:13] and, in fact, I think it [00:16:14] already has sort of [00:16:15] coalesced [00:16:16] around things like Claude [00:16:17] Cowork [00:16:18] and other [00:16:19] open weight models too, [00:16:20] maybe, right?

I think over [00:16:21] time, maybe more and [00:16:22] more. [00:16:23] But in any [00:16:24] firm, you're gonna [00:16:25] have a [00:16:26] handful of these [00:16:27] that [00:16:28] do a lot of things, that work [00:16:29] across entire [00:16:30] processes, that [00:16:31] work in groups [00:16:32] to get things done. [00:16:33] And [00:16:34] I think [00:16:35] the, the [00:16:36] technologies that [00:16:37] will [00:16:38] persist and be [00:16:39] useful even in [00:16:40] this future [00:16:41] are tools that AI [00:16:42] can use.

[00:16:43] So, structured data [00:16:44] sets with all kinds [00:16:45] of [00:16:46] governance and [00:16:47] guardrails baked in, [00:16:48] communication [00:16:49] platforms, communication [00:16:50] networks, [00:16:51] process [00:16:52] orchestration [00:16:53] solutions, [00:16:54] solutions that [00:16:55] allow you to [00:16:56] get consistency out [00:16:57] of your AI, AI [00:16:58] agents, allow you to get [00:16:59] scalability, [00:17:00] auditability- Yeah ... right? [00:17:01] These are the things that are really [00:17:02] gonna survive.[00:17:03]

And, you know, you asked what's [00:17:04] under-hyped. I think [00:17:05] sometimes those types of [00:17:06] solutions don't look [00:17:07] or feel very [00:17:08] sexy. [00:17:09] People are looking for the [00:17:10] whiz-bang, "Ooh, look, [00:17:11] AI just generated this [00:17:12] beautiful thing for me." [00:17:13] But [00:17:14] that's gonna be such a [00:17:15] commodity. Any [00:17:16] frontier model [00:17:17] or even any sort of like [00:17:18] sophisticated [00:17:19] open, open weight [00:17:20] model is gonna be able to [00:17:21] do all the [00:17:22] same whiz-bang [00:17:23] things.

[00:17:24] What's gonna be important is [00:17:25] that they are doing [00:17:26] those things on [00:17:27] a [00:17:28] shared, standardized, [00:17:29] governed set of [00:17:30] data and a platform that the [00:17:31] whole company coalesces [00:17:32] around. [00:17:33] Those things, I think are gonna [00:17:34] actually be, [00:17:35] are gonna be the things that have [00:17:36] staying power and, you [00:17:37] know, maybe should be [00:17:38] seen as sexier than they [00:17:39] are.

I [00:17:40] agree with you. [00:17:41] We've seen [00:17:42] Anthropic and Blackstone [00:17:43] launch [00:17:44] a $1.5 billion [00:17:45] enterprise [00:17:46] AI service [00:17:47] firm earlier this [00:17:48] year, explicitly [00:17:49] targeting real estate, [00:17:50] and their pitch [00:17:51] is they're [00:17:52] embedding AI engineers [00:17:53] directly into [00:17:54] portfolio operations. [00:17:55] You- Thought that was a big [00:17:56] nothing burger, to be honest, [00:17:57] but maybe that's a controversial [00:17:58] take.

[00:17:59] I-- That's what we're here for. [00:18:00] I, I, I haven't [00:18:01] seen anything in, in the [00:18:02] real world, right? We [00:18:03] haven't seen this [00:18:04] play out. We- I mean, it [00:18:05] was- We know these- It was, it [00:18:06] was a big announcement [00:18:07] that was essentially, [00:18:08] "Hey, we're, uh, we're [00:18:09] doing a big enterprise [00:18:10] IT build." [00:18:11] Like, I mean, come on. I've [00:18:12] been doing this a long [00:18:13] time.

these companies [00:18:14] are always announcing these [00:18:15] big enterprise [00:18:16] IT builds, and, like, there was [00:18:17] honestly nothing in that [00:18:18] announcement that sounded [00:18:19] even a little bit original to me. [00:18:20] Again, maybe a [00:18:21] controversial take, [00:18:22] but we'll, I guess we'll [00:18:23] see what comes out of that. [00:18:24] We need more takes like [00:18:25] that because [00:18:26] honestly, it, it's something that I, [00:18:27] I also saw the [00:18:28] announcement.

I haven't [00:18:29] heard of [00:18:30] anyone acting on [00:18:31] it, nothing [00:18:32] happening. Well, I don't think it's [00:18:33] anything, like... That's [00:18:34] happening all over the [00:18:35] place. Right. Right? They're, [00:18:36] they made a big announcement [00:18:37] about it, but I know lots of big [00:18:38] real estate companies that are [00:18:39] doing lots [00:18:40] of really interesting [00:18:41] internal builds. [00:18:42] And again, like, that's [00:18:43] all great.

I [00:18:44] just think that [00:18:45] the idea that [00:18:46] you can [00:18:47] find some sort of [00:18:48] alpha [00:18:49] In doing [00:18:50] something like that today, [00:18:51] it's like [00:18:52] where's the secret [00:18:53] sauce? [00:18:54] Right? I'm sorry. No. [00:18:55] Don't be ... the-- I can [00:18:56] also use Anthropic, [00:18:57] right? All my customers can [00:18:58] use Anthropic, right? [00:18:59] So I think it's [00:19:00] probably just [00:19:01] a, a really [00:19:02] good way to spend a [00:19:03] lot of money [00:19:04] and kinda drive down [00:19:05] your ROI when you [00:19:06] try to make a [00:19:07] big swing like that.[00:19:08]

Big [00:19:09] swing IT [00:19:10] projects [00:19:11] have been a thing for a [00:19:12] long time. [00:19:13] They [00:19:14] inevitably disappoint in terms [00:19:15] of their actual [00:19:16] outcomes. Like, the [00:19:17] bigger the swing you [00:19:18] take with these, these [00:19:19] massive IT builds, the [00:19:20] more likely [00:19:21] someone's gonna get [00:19:22] fired and there's gonna be, like, a [00:19:23] lot of disappointment, [00:19:24] right? Boiling the water- [00:19:25] It's, it-

the ocean ... boil the [00:19:26] ocean. Yeah, it's, much [00:19:27] better [00:19:28] to focus [00:19:29] on solving [00:19:30] real problems [00:19:31] incrementally, [00:19:32] iteratively, and sort [00:19:33] of going at the value [00:19:34] and not [00:19:35] getting swept up in [00:19:36] the grandiose, [00:19:37] "We are gonna build the [00:19:38] be-all, end-all AI [00:19:39] solution for real estate." Like [00:19:40] that's... I don't know. [00:19:41] It sounded a lot like a lot of [00:19:42] hot air to me, to be [00:19:43] honest.

I love [00:19:44] your [00:19:45] honesty. Collaboration [00:19:46] superpower. If you could choose [00:19:47] one person, [00:19:48] historic or living, [00:19:49] real or [00:19:50] fictional, to do a [00:19:51] partnership with, [00:19:52] who would it be? [00:19:53] Oh my [00:19:54] God, what a [00:19:55] question. I have a [00:19:56] lot of heroes. I'm a [00:19:57] bit of an amateur [00:19:58] [00:19:59] technology historian. I read a [00:20:00] lot about [00:20:01] the way that [00:20:02] technologies have evolved over [00:20:03] time.

I have a [00:20:04] lot of heroes, but I [00:20:05] definitely have got a bit of a [00:20:06] soft spot for [00:20:07] Steve Jobs. [00:20:08] definitely not the most original [00:20:09] answer. It's, I hear it a [00:20:10] lot of people, but [00:20:11] if I could [00:20:12] pick one [00:20:13] person to [00:20:14] have the [00:20:15] privilege of working [00:20:16] with on [00:20:17] innovation, it would [00:20:18] be him, the [00:20:19] legend, right? [00:20:20] He is. And, uh, [00:20:21] uh, we can't [00:20:22] say any new things that [00:20:23] probably haven't been said, but [00:20:24] for me personally, [00:20:25] I just keep [00:20:26] discovering new things [00:20:27] that he had [00:20:28] influence on or that [00:20:29] he directly [00:20:30] inspired. [00:20:31] So yeah, [00:20:32] I, I would say [00:20:33] Elon Musk or Steve [00:20:34] Jobs are [00:20:35] answers that we often [00:20:36] get, and, uh, I, it's [00:20:37] understandable.

[00:20:38] Elon Musk [00:20:39] pre-Twitter. [00:20:40] Fair. [00:20:41] That's not a hot take. I think [00:20:42] that's a fair take. Oh [00:20:43] my God. Yeah. [00:20:44] Raj, where can [00:20:45] Tangent listeners [00:20:46] and real estate [00:20:47] investment teams learn [00:20:48] more about [00:20:49] Altrio and connect with [00:20:50] you? Yeah, [00:20:51] we'd love for folks to [00:20:52] reach out and get in [00:20:53] touch. Our, our [00:20:54] website is [00:20:55] www.altrio, [00:20:56] [00:20:57] A-L-T-R-I-O, [00:20:58] .com.

And a [00:20:59] lot of the features and [00:21:00] sort of exciting things [00:21:01] we've been releasing [00:21:02] recently, they're actually [00:21:03] all available [00:21:04] to try for [00:21:05] free. It's, um, [00:21:06] unlike a lot of solutions in [00:21:07] our space that require you to [00:21:08] go through a whole sales [00:21:09] cycle, [00:21:10] and [00:21:11] demos, and talk to [00:21:12] salespeople, and then [00:21:13] do an onboarding [00:21:14] project, our new [00:21:15] solution actually is [00:21:16] something you could be up and [00:21:17] running on in, in five [00:21:18] minutes.

In fact, I've actually signed [00:21:19] up a number of people here at the [00:21:20] conference. Wow. So yeah, [00:21:21] if you wanna, you wanna [00:21:22] try, you know, our, our [00:21:23] inbox agent, our [00:21:24] sourcing agent, [00:21:25] or any of our [00:21:26] AI-powered solutions, [00:21:27] you can actually do that yourself [00:21:28] just on our website. [00:21:29] [00:21:30] Raj Singh, [00:21:31] CEO and [00:21:32] co-founder of [00:21:33] Altrio. Thank you [00:21:34] so much for [00:21:35] coming to Tangent today.[00:21:36]

Thanks, Edward. It's a [00:21:37] pleasure.

Edward: [00:21:38] [00:21:39] [00:21:40] [00:21:41] Muchas [00:21:42] gracias. [00:21:43] If you learn something [00:21:44] new or enjoy the [00:21:45] conversation. [00:21:46] Text a friend the [00:21:47] link to this episode [00:21:48] right now.

[00:21:49] [00:21:50] You can find [00:21:51] links, resources, and [00:21:52] ways to connect with [00:21:53] us in the show [00:21:54] notes [00:21:55] [00:21:56] [00:21:57]